Troy McDuffie on Running the Sheriff's Office: Deputy Pay, the Jail, and ICE Detainers

Peter Pappas: fifty four thousand seven hundred thirty five dollars. That's what a new Cumberland County deputy starts at under a pay plan that took effect this summer. The sheriff who built it, Jonathan Morgan, retires on december first, and the man who beat him in the primary is sitting across from me. If he wins, that plan, that jail, and that department are his. I'm Peter Pappas, this is the Carolina Capitol. Joining me today is Troy McDuffie. Troy is a Democratic nominee for Shumberley County Sheriff. He started out in the 82nd Airborne, then spent years with the Fayetteville Police Department working patrol, child abuse, and homicide cases. He went on to serve as second in command at the Hoke County Sheriff's Office. He was police chief in Red Springs, and then police chief in Spring Lake, where he rebuilt a department that had lost its police powers. In this March twenty twenty six, he won a four way Democratic primary over the appointed sheriff Jonathan Morgan. In November, he faces Republican LaRue Windham, who sat down with us back in April. Sheriff Morgan retires December first, so whoever wins takes the office that day. Early voting begins October fifteenth, election day is November third, and the registration deadline is tomorrow, October ninth. So, Mr McDuffie, welcome back to the cabinet. Being here once again. Should have a lot of fun. So I appreciate you you know, we had you're busy. You're you've been very busy in the campaign, and I really I can appreciate that because I keep harping on these school board guys. There's sixteen of those guys and I had two of stand me up twice. Yeah. At least you reached out and said, Hey, but let's do it again. And I appreciate that. I really do. So the last time you sat here, you were one of four Democrats in a primary. Yes. you did beat the sitting sheriff, and so What did what did the voters tell you out there that you didn't expect to hear? Well first of all you know, I w I wanna say thanks to the voters to to those that supported me and in advance I wanna thank those that openly support me this time that did not support me. Okay. but you know, running you know, my first my primary was good. You know, and and it really You know, it it it's really given me a lot of experience to continue and on. But I've had really positive responses. Is this your first elected office you've gone for? Is it it because I know you so my next question's gonna be you run departments in Red Spring, Spring Lake, second of command in Hoke. Now this office is gonna run the jail, the courthouse, the school patrol. Right. So you've never those have been all you've been hired for those positions, right? The other ones? Right. They they've all been appointed having to go through assessment. Okay. It's chosen. Yeah. you can't just walk in and they hand you the keys and say, Here you go, be chief. Well they just don't call you and say, Hey, I'd like you to do that, please chief. Gotcha. It's always it's always been a process that you have to go through. What's what's the biggest jump then? From being appointed and assessed heavily. the biggest jump from that to now you're I'm sorry, but you're a politician, you're running for office. Right. Politician. Politician. but alone first. Okay. You know, and and and the politics are part of it, but you have to accept, you know, those responsibilities that, you know, they come with it. so that has been an adjustment. And I will back up. I did have a I would say a a a case that back in two thousand six. Okay. when I did run against the lake Hubert Petekin and Hole County. But as a writing candidate. Okay. Okay. That really wasn't much of a campaign. Okay. and I don't remember much of it, to be honest with you. You know, it it was the right decision. Right, right. But again, it probably still helped prepare me for what God has me now. Okay. Well, I I don't know. I don't think anybody can prepare you for what you deal with out there. you know We were discussing off air, you know, how many forums, how busy you've been. last year city council municipal races seem to have just an exponential growth in how many organizations are holding forums and just as a candidate, I don't it's getting to like a critical mass. I don't think you're gonna be able to get to all of them eventually. You can't. I I I just I don't see a way you can do it. You you can. And then there you have of several that kind of crisscross each other. I had that happen on on Saturday. You know, but you know, I try to, you know, keep myself, you know, out there. I I try to commit. If I commit, then certainly I try to participate in any form. But but it's difficult. It's difficult. it's pretty pretty ghoul, you know, it's not this physical, you know, it takes a toll on you physical but mentally. you know just talking with with you know with with folks for an hour or two hours normally that can drain you too so but it's all part. It I I understand. it it's all part of what you have to endure in order to get where you're trying to get to. Understood. So I wanna go back in time a little bit. Spring Lake it lost its police powers before you took over. Yes, sir. You were brought in to repair it. So what is a broken department? What did it look like from the inside? And what was the thing you fixed first in Spring Lake? Well, the first thing, I think that that you know, looking back and it and it took a team after we had to at least organize, mm-hmm, you know, put a structure in place. I think I remember looking back on those days, our first task well my first task was billing a a command staff you know around around myself and then starting to coordinate what it was gonna take for the officers to get back on the road. Sure. And so there were looking back there were many meetings between myself, Ed Granis, at that time he was the district attorney. Right. Chief chief district court judge was Beth Keeper. And then of course sh sheriff relate sheriff Bruce Butler right I can remember those meetings you know down at the DA's office coordinating what it was gonna take. so it had that going on but at the same time I recall starting to work on cooperation, real re-establishing relationships with the surrounding agencies, meeting with the SBI, with Fairfield, starting to build relationships. And then after that starting to build the relationships back with the community. How long was was Spring Lake out of policing power? What was the time? Was it was it a year or more? A little over a year when the Sheriff Office took over. Basically, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, a little over a year. I'm just imagining I wonder if Sheriff Butler was relieved finally when he had some help in that area for that quarter of the county. I can speak. you know, I have the utmost respect for Sheriff Butler Yeah. And how He supported me back during those times. You know, there was talk that, well, they just want you know, Sheriff Butler to take over Spring Lake and Spring Lake to be a part of of the sheriff office. Sheriff Butler didn't want that. He did not. He, you know, he wanted a police chief in Spring Lake to continue to run that department as it always was. Right. but they fully cooperated in in and helped us rebuild. that department. yeah, so you went in, you built a team and got back on the road. So how long did it take once you took office? I mean, there's probably statutory stuff, but I mean how long were you able to get these guys back on the road? The first steps was getting them back on the ro on the road to patrol. Mm-hmm. that probably took around around eight months because we were starting from scratch. I only had six or seven officers. We had to get new vehicles, you know, new new equipment. you know, continue with the training, sure. I had to get a staff in place. And we were able to do that, you know, you know, in a fairly short amount of time. But then I had to get the approval from the DN, right Mr. Mr. Granis. Yeah he had to give the green line him and Beth Beth Cable because essentially they can't just shut the department down. But if the district attorney says that okay Whatever if your officer makes an arrest, you know, we are not going to prosecute a case. You're not going to issue warrants, any of those things. Then essentially you're shut down. You're shut down, yeah. Yeah, right. There's nothing you can do. No. Okay. so tell me about one call from your patrol days that you still think about. From my patrol day. That's I know it's a while ago, but You know, that's a long time ago. I think a call that that still brings to mind was a vehicle pursuit that I worked in the Merchant Road area for probably about two years. Okay. And I remember working in the Merchant Road area, we were involved in a vehicle pursuit. I had a training with with me, I was a training officer. And we chased this young man all the way over to Rose Hill Road and he jumped out and ran into the woods. And I pursued him. My trainee was behind me. Somehow she got the trainee got misdirected. But all I remember is me and this guy in the wood line caught up with him and we got into a struggle. Okay. And we were struggling. And I just remember and the yanking I can my belt yanking on the belt and then the next thing my w weapon comes out. so we're fighting over my weapon. I was able to you know, retain possession of my weapon to get it and and sort of push aside then I remember the asardic came up, back up came. But that was probably the closest that throughout my career that that I came to, you know, possibly losing my life because definitely one that sticks out. Good lord. All right. Yeah. 'Cause I there's no doubt in my mind and when I asked him afterwards, had he been able to control my weapon, I was on top of him. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. Well that's I'm glad he didn't and I'm glad you're here. you know, we can happy times. Let's think happy yeah, that's that's very Yeah. I think people oftentimes F the police and stuff like this, and they don't know that for not not for nothing, you're a guy looking to go home to your kid. Exactly. You know, people overlook that. They're pissed off at I I tell people, look, nobody likes their cell phone provider or their bank or their doc or their hospital, and especially their cops. They don't, you know, but they don't understand that you're not going to be happy any like they're not going to be happy anywhere, but that there's an actual human being on the other side of that. Exactly and they discount th they want to play identity and identify you with what they perceive as not right with the department. And that's that's not fair. I mean you that's not anyway, but I'm glad you made it home. So yeah. Okay. So we are gonna put on screen, I don't have them here, but they will be in the final. we're gonna talk about Sheriff Morgan's pay plan. Do you do you plan to keep it, change it, or do you think it needs more money to Well, I'll be honest with you, and I talked about this and and Sheriff Morgan and I we we've discussed it but not in detail. Okay. I think there's some some good positive traits with the pay plan. And we have talked about there are a few areas that that that I'll probably have to go back and look at it, especially when it comes to you know, tradition officers that are are currently there and those that are coming in. so that looks like an area that that if it's if if if it's not you know resolved god will before I take office then certainly I will go so is it still so I've got here that they is the starting salary truly fifty four thousand seven thirty five and then it goes to eighty five eight twenty four? The top pay? The top pay. Eighty five thousand. Yeah. Okay. So and also that the top pay the changes made makes the top pay accomplishable or attainable within thirteen years instead of twenty three. So there was a change in how quickly you can get to right the higher salary. Okay. Okay. I would imagine you're gonna wanna keep up with that. You're gonna wanna make sure we find more money for these guys. I I think the need of the of the plan, you know, certainly it gives it gives me a lot to it to work with. Right. but will it take some adjustments, maybe some things that that, you know, that we gave up in order to get there. You know, I wanna look at, you know, those things, you know, also. but I think you know the overall plan itself is certainly gonna be beneficial to well the city the city of Fayev police went through the same thing and they they had a lot of problems with Just like the teachers right now, the compression, the right you know, starting out you get yeah, you get almost sixty you get fifty five thousand a year, great. But the guy the the training officer's making fifty nine and he's been there ten years. Right. Right. You know, so you have to fix the compression too. The teacher example, the new teachers have got a seventeen percent raise, but the ones at the other end I think got five percent. That's my wife. Is it your wife? Okay, all right. My wife's an educator. Okay, okay. And and and she's she fell in that in the not new category, but maybe a little more experience. Yeah. She experience, you know, she's been with the county probably for not only ten years. Okay. But she brought another fifteen Yeah, but see she's only been in our system ten years, which means automatic she right now she's like aged out of yeah. The big braces. Yeah, yes it wasn't a fifty increase of month for her. Right. Because they did give her ten years from she's My wife's in Jamaica because she taught she's taught fifteen years there. Okay. So some of that was built into her, you know, her current switching over. Okay. All right. So are the no, I so she didn't start at zero as far as the brand new, but right still she's in that gap. See that I think the the five to ten year or fifteen year gap is where the teachers really the salaries just fall flat. Right. You know, we're trying so hard to to attract the the newer teachers and the younger ones and then you got the older ones having to show the young ones how to do it. Exactly. And they're making more than the older ones. Which is And I certainly don't want to see that, you know, happen with the Jair Fox. So certainly you know, sit down, you know, you know with the the current budget analysts that we you know have working now just I'm saying this God will just make me thinking now fully But I think overall, it's a it's gonna be a great start. You're not gonna throw out the baby with the bathwater. You're gonna hold on to it and you're gonna make adjustments. Something has to be fine tuned. I like you. Okay. before the primary you told City View that you didn't see a major problem inside the sheriff's office. So If there's no major issues, why aren't we changing sheriff then? Well, I I I mean that's besides they voted for again. I think it it may I think it boils down to just the change in leadership. You know, I didn't s I said and I still say that I don't see major problems between the sheriff's office. But there's always one one proof. Well, let me hand you one then. The detention center. It runs on about twenty two million dollars a year out of your budget. What is the state of that jail and what do you what about it would keep you up at night currently right now? Just the short just the responsibility. Just the responsibility. Okay. You know, your inmates obviously outnumber, you know, your employees. That's the way jails operate. so there's always you know you know at any given time things can go wrong. Yeah. so you know coming into you know the sheriff's office, certainly sitting down with the the the chief chair, the the major now, support has to be there. Yeah. Yeah, there has to be, you know, good communication because that jail certainly, you know, can make a break of a a sheriff. You don't want, you know, that was the of the of major problems in the jail. And one of the ways in helping to try to control and leviate that is is, you know, ensure that you and that team dead were you know, that that that we're on the same right. Yeah, that I'm doing whatever is is needed to ensure that she has the the the staffing, okay the resources, support. And I think that certainly goes a long way in in ensuring that where that we can, you know, try to eliminate some of the mishaps that we have in these days. Okay. Haven't have we had some mishaps lately did we have in custody deaths or something recent did we or I don't re I feel like I saw something recently about that, but there's been nothing recent. I heard something on the on on the book of faces talking about but but no it is Not that I'm a I I'm a Yeah, okay. Yeah, I I probably should have dug into that one before I brought you in here, but I I swear we had some look, we have issues, it's a jail, nobody's happy to be there. So why are they gonna be nice to our jailers? I mean that's just the way it works, but this plan is required to keep these men and women safe. Right. And and and compensation again, pay. You know, when we talk about deputies, we also have to include detention officers. so that pay plan also address you know, for pay compensation for detention officers. Is there a difference between a deputy on patrol and a deputy that's a jailer? As far as like the oath they take or the authority they have? Only if well actually as if you have detention officers and then you have sworn law enforcement officers that are detention officers. So a sworn a law enforcement officer that's working in the jail, yeah no, they have the same authority. as a patrol okay. All right. But just so jailer doesn't? Because they're not sworn? They're not they're not sworn. They go to a different they're not sworn law enforcement officers. Okay. They go to a go to a detention officer course okay which is not which is not nearly as as as lengthy as the B LAP basic law enforcement training. Okay. I've I've never asked that about that distinction, but okay, it makes sense. So you can have a sworn deputy on the patrol or he can work in the jail or you can have just straight up jailers. Exactly. Okay. Yeah, because some I don't know now how it is now, but a lot of new deputies, they start off in the jail. You know, they get that experience, then they move on to the road. But now I don't know Looking at the staffing of your deputies and the detention officers, I know there are sworn deputies that are working and still working in the detention center, but I don't know if we're starting them. That's something I'll have to get. Okay. So let's see. In February, I did you walked us through how you'd handle ICE detainers. since then, the state law enforcement agencies have signed 287 G agreements with ICE. So would the Cumberland County Sheriff's Office sign one under you? Yes, no, or why? Again, and I answer that question and and and I'll go back to it. You know what whatever the letter of the law requires of us, then certainly, you know, we're going to we're going to support, you know, ICE. You know, if legislation states that you know this is what we must do concerning. But as far as you know, then part of an organization that supports that well actively works along the lines, the manpower is just not there. You know, we we have the wrong we already have the responsibilities of control, of civil process and of the jail. you you look at the the different organizations, even I, you know, they don't have the responsibility is is is detainees. So I still but our major focus still has to be community enforcement and you know, certainly you know supporting one the all especially you know, the tame or if we're called, you know, two or those let's go let's separate it. So yeah, I don't want you out there hanging out with the dudes in the ice vest. that's not what I want my sheriff's department doing 'cause you don't have the people anyway. And and I get that. So let's put it like this. The legislature's passed it. It's it's a law now, two hundred eighty seven G. what does working with ICE look like to the sheriff's department if you pull somebody over? What is I mean, is it just a matter of typing somebody's name in a machine and if it pops then you hold on to I mean, how easy I I it's because I think people they wanna they wanna shoehorn you as a candidate into Are you gonna support ICE or not? Right. And this is more what does that look like and would you do it? Right. And that's just a matter of I I think that's the support that that that we're t we're talking about. You know, if if a if a person's name is run through the system and it pops up that okay, ICE has a a retainer on that that individual, then certainly it's our responsibility, not just to ignore it and and and let the individual drive off to the team. this individual. you know, to contact ICE, to make them aware of it. But there's there's a a a a a statue that limits how long we can detain an individual right. Yeah, you can't just hold on to them and ICE has so long to come get or else if they bond out, they bond out. Right. You know, I I I I even with the new statute, I don't see a you know a whole lot of changes in what they're there are I think what people perceive, I believe you know, I see a lot of conservative stuff and of course I follow a lot of liberal stuff 'cause I just gotta have a balance. you know, but a lot of it's like that people misperceive an agency's cooperation with ICE as you're going to schools with ICE or you're going to parks to find whatever. And it's like that's not what we're asking our local law enforcement to do. Right. People misconstrue that ICE is doing their job. They're going to find who they need to find or they want to find, whether you like it or not. All we want our local law enforcement is if it pops on the computer, just hang on to them. That's that's all yeah, that's all I w that's all I wanna see at I I don't wanna shoehorn you into anything else, you know, like I just wanna know if you're gonna agree with the law because there have been sheriffs in North Carolina that have been outspoken that they're not gonna do it. Now, they never followed it up as you did with we don't have the personnel. They never followed it up with we don't have the budget. Or we don't have the technology. There's never been it's been more of a What do you call it? a feeling. Right. You know, responding as emotionally instead of, well, we don't quite have enough cash to do that. Right. You know, so I think that's what's created the perception of like an activist sheriff. And I just want my sheriff to enforce the law. And that just we will do. And bring me the civil papers. Don't serve me with any. I don't want to. But but anyway, so that's as much as I really want to talk about it. It's it's Always you know, it seems like since the primary when you were here in February, you know, it it has not quieted a little bit it has the all the energy around ice and all. But I I just want my town safe and that's what you know goes in in this our needed community. That's what you know, we you know that's what you should be. Right. And and but certainly, you know, as a as you just here, you know, we're we're still like and I've said that from again. I said that last time, I've said that at one. You know, you know I I I had accused somebody accused me let me just saying that they I followed the letter of the law. Right. Well if that means support, that's what I'm referring to. not accused of Well, I took some heat because I didn't push you on that and I was like, I yeah, maybe, but we can talk again. Right. You know, I wasn't worried about you know, and if I if you hadn't been able to appear, I still would have done a gone called you on the phone and just talked about it. Yes. I that I would have I would not so I was accused of not pushing the issue myself. And I was like, well, he said it's letter of the law. And at that time 287 G hadn't been signed, as far as I know. So now it is. You just do what's signed. And that's fine. We're gonna move on. Okay, well this one hits home because someone was charged with tearing down campaign signs, yours included. So How should a sheriff handle a crime against his own campaign? Well, I'll say this. it's just it's disturbing you know for a candidate. you know, when you're out you're working hard, you know, running a campaign, and then somebody comes along and they think it's Cool idea to destroy and deface your you know, your signs but you know, this individual, you know, Fayetteville did an excellent job. They followed up and identified the person. And that's what I want it to see because you don't want it to escalate. Right. You know, and to overlook it and and not look at it as you don't want it normalized that it's okay. Exactly. For sure. Exactly. You know, so as as a sheriff, I would put the same energy that Fairville put into apprehending this this and identifying him and apprehending him as Fedville did. For any candidate. It doesn't matter, it would matter regardless of the affiliation. Right. It's wrong, it's it's disturbing, it's a distraction, you know, for the candidate. But now I've moved on. Yeah, right. I it's a sign. I I actually was surprised none of my signs came back with like, you know, penises drawn on it or something. Like, you know, I mean 'cause I had some in some secluded places that had a picture of me and I was surprised, you know, none of them came back. And I would expect some of my own friends to have done that to me. Right. See, so I and again, I saw the individual that was apprehended and charged. and you probably saw some activity on social media from me where I was needling Miss Ackles because that's what I do. but you know, and she says, Well, I got a police report. Do you want I said, Yes, 'cause we're gonna hold them accountable too. You know, I I don't more stir in the pot with her than it is I it I do take it sincerely and I don't want my own side screwed with. but it's a distraction and you move on. Yeah. I mean I it was serious for me. Right. I filed the original police. Okay. You know, that's when it came back and well that's proper channels. See, instead of it's not a I didn't comment. You you know I noticed yeah, yeah, you didn't get involved, you know, with the comments or the media. you know, I took the proper step. I followed up, you know, good Fed Bio and they were able to It was pretty quick that they turned that around and now did now did they use those damn flock cameras to help? Did that help the investigation all the your knowledge? I mean, look, those things get such a bad rap. I'm not gonna go for or against those, but I mean, did they use technology to help get to the suspect? Okay. All right. Well that's what it's there for. plus the individual, you know, it wasn't very smart on his part because you know, there was you had the the the flock cameras, you had the store cameras, Exxon. They had cameras, all of that intersection. And it's a very well known and it like like if you got a campaign in Cumberland County, if you don't have a sign on Robus and a raver, then you're not doing it. Right. You're just you're not running a campaign. So I just hope that that that folks learn. I've still have some issues with my sign. Have you? Just had went out yesterday, had to put a sign back up. I just want folks, you know, to to to learn from this and just run your campaign. Yeah. Run campaign and and I'm not saying that someone in In in another campaign. Yeah, no, no, no, no, no. But for those that are out there, if they're influenced by anyone, listen, you know, that's that's not necessary. I I think well, again, I don't know and he's gonna be adjudicated. I think it was a class three misdemeanor, I believe is what he got charged with. But they held him in jail with no bond though. Well that bond wasn't on w wasn't just for He had other stuff on, yeah, is that why I think he had failed to appear, I understand. Okay. So they kept him to appear. Well, okay. They're just doing him a favor. So he already had He already had some things, yeah. It's I mean, from my rec my understanding, it's not his first brush with exact being in trouble and yeah. So anyway, a lot of it caused some political hay, but Yeah, it it did and and but like I said, I I I didn't allow it t to distract right you know, what I was doing, what I've been doing, and I just brushed it aside and and and moved on. Good for you. Thank goodness. Yeah. See, we don't want I think the best advice ever received front to me from another political person was scroll past. Right. Just scroll past. Don't not everything requires a response. Exactly. And sometimes not responding pisses them off more. Exactly. so the sheriff's office does patrol our county schools. so we did have a reorganization. It was back in summer of twenty-five, I believe, is when we pulled the SR. Sheriff Wright had to reorganize the SRO program. Right. And now the Sheriff's Office is still doing SRO, but do we have enough deputies? Let's start overall first. How are we deputy wise just overall? And then let's talk about deputies in the school buildings. So do we have a full complement of deputies right now? Are we fully staffed? Absolutely no. No. Okay. Off by a factor of ten, twenty, thirty percent. What do you think? And you can completely conjecture, I naturally bring numbers. So not just right off the top of my head, I think they're probably about at least about fifty to sixty deputies. And out of but so how many deputies are we're supposed to have total then? sworn deputies, thinking Three hundred fifty five. So if we're missing sixty, we got that's twenty percent really. Okay. All right. So we're off by a factor of twenty. We'll just go with the pretend math. We don't have to be exact here. Right. you know, I can always call you later. But so with that, we're twenty percent down and I do think that was a big reason why Sheriff Wright did what he did, 'cause it was like I don't know what else to do. Right. whether I agreed with the process or I spoke against whatever, that's two years ago almost. What about the deputies in the schools though? Do we have I know I know we're short 20, but how short are we in the schools? Even even pulling back, were we able to redeploy to cover other schools we weren't? Or I mean what happened to those schools? I and I don't know the exact numbers, but it's it's it's it's manageable now. Okay. Okay. I I will say then and I think, you know, and I can't speak for Homer Share right. Mm-hmm. But I think that was the when he made that decision, it was you know, they were they they were in a position where it just wasn't manageable anymore, you know, to cover all the schools. And and certainly I I like having chief deputy's in the schools. Right. Yeah. again, my wife's an educator, you know. and I just you know, I think, you know, it You deputies are just geared. Well, not to identify her school or anything or her where she is in the school system, but city or county school that she's in. City school. Okay. So sh the police department, Fayetteville City Police took that one over? Right. Well she's in I will just say this she's in elementary school. Okay. They don't really have Well they never did before, even with the shares, did they? Yeah. And I think the other perception too, a lot of parents didn't understand that one sheriff might share right. Like two middle schools or something like they had an area. Exactly. They didn't just have there wasn't like one posted up at every school. Right. Ideally, I would love to have a a deputy in each school. b but is that realistic Well is it necessary? Y you know, realistic and necessary, I think hasn't technology kind of advanced a little bit with re restricting entry to the schools and I think they have those things, they're not magnetometers, they're what the hell are those things? 'Cause they can sense you have a gun on you, but it's not I just I don't know what that is. It's some new technology. I don't know, but I but you know, I mean I think technology has advanced with camera systems and stuff like that that it's not gonna replace a human. And the deterrent of having a sworn officer there is second to none. but yeah, I don't think people understand there wasn't exactly one posted up at every school. Particularly the elementary school. So so I mean what's your what's your take on the future of the SRO program? I mean the county schools do pay for the contract. Right. would that is that an area that you'd like to see grow to continue offering that service or do you think as time goes on, school system might say Well we're gonna get private security. No. It it's certainly an area that I'd like to continue to see grow. Okay. You know, you know, SROs, you know, they can be great mentors also, you know, for the kids in these schools. I just you know, not that they're there to to just you know, you know, arrest don't celebrate crime. Yeah. But, you know, they can you know, create you know, positively poor you know, when it comes to enforcement officers, you know, in in a general type of case. Yeah. I think that's an important factor that's overlooked, you know, at times to report it, that's it. It's crazy. Like you might actually be really humans and stuff behind the batch. That's right. It's crazy. Yeah. I survey myself as he's love, but there's Yeah. You know, not just well, you know, you gotta root for the home team though now. Come on. Exactly. So Think I already know the answer to this one. I'm just gonna throw it anyway. So between the office and the jail, the sheriff's department is gonna run about fifty-eight million dollars a year. So have you ever run an agency anywhere near that size? No. No. You know, and and I've been presented with that question and my response is about my thirty-five plus years of leaving well about twenty years, twenty years of leading agencies. God has built me to lead. Okay. If leadership is built in, that's all you know. All I know, I don't know how to follow. You know, I feel like God built me to lead. Okay. If you have that leadership ability in you, it doesn't matter if you lead if you're leading five people versus five hundred, you're gonna lead. Okay. And and my response is that's what I'm I'm doing. I'm built to lead and I will leave the Cumberland County Sheriff Office. Yep. just as I've led other agencies. it took away almost my last question. So so the last one I had was on December first. Somebody pins on that badge. So I want you to tell the voter who hasn't decided why it should be you. So with the leadership, go ahead. I'll let you quickly respond. Well, and that's it. You know, I I feel my brain proven transparent leadership, which is important, you know, to an organization. I'm just fun to leave that leadership starts from the top. Okay. I I I I know this county. I I I care deeply about this county. And you know my you know my style of leadership I will bring, you know, accountability, fairness, transparency. Okay, which is what I think the community, you know, also wants. So that experience proven leadership, in my opinion, certainly is is more is what you know drives a good organization. Okay. Well, Mr. McDuffie, thank you. that's the kind of conversation people keep telling me doesn't happen anymore. And we certainly did have it. So thank you. folks, both sheriffs' candidates, full conversations will go up next Wednesday on the fourteenth. I I implore you to watch both. Go look it up yourself. That's the point. You can Google it. The door's always open for you. Win or lose, you come back after the first hundred days and tell us what you change. So Peter, I I appreciate you having. I appreciate you reaching me back out to make this happen. it's been Googling, but but I'm glad that I was able to take time to support you. Just keep fighting. Please keep fighting. Okay. Well with that everybody, you can find all of our Episodes and shows, the Carolinacabinet.com. It takes four whole seconds. 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