Frances Jackson on Schools, State Budgets, and Empowering the People of Hope Mills

Rep. Frances Jackson: So if you live in Hope Mills, you may have missed this because nobody held a press conference about it. In September, the state put your town on the financial watch list. Firefighter positions are sitting empty. My guest today represents Hope Mills in Raleigh, and nobody is running against her this November. So today is the closest thing she gets to a job review. I'm Peter Pappas, and this is the Carolina Capitol.

Peter Pappas: So if you live in Hope Mills, you may have missed this because nobody held a press conference about it. In September, the state put your town on the financial watch list. Firefighter positions are sitting empty. My guest today represents Hope Mills in Raleigh, and nobody is running against her this November. So today is the closest thing she gets to a job review. I'm Peter Pappas and this is the Carolina Cabinet.

Rep. Frances Jackson: Joining me today is Representative Francis

Peter Pappas: Joining me today is Representative Francis Jackson. Doctor Jackson represents North Carolina House District forty five, which covers Hope Mills and parts of West Fayetteville.

Rep. Frances Jackson: Jackson. Dr. Jackson represents North Carolina House District 45, which covers Hope Mills and parts of West Bay.

Peter Pappas: She's a Fayetteville native, and before she went to Raleigh, she spent more than twenty seven years in local and state government, including as a transportation planner for Cumberland County, and a transit analyst for the city of Fayetteville. She also teaches middle school social studies. Nice. She was first elected in twenty twenty two. She won her primary this March and she has no opponent on the November ballot.

Rep. Frances Jackson: She's a Fayetteville native and before she went to Raleigh, she spent more than 27 years in local and state government including has a transportation banner for Cumberland Valley and a transit ambulance for the city of Fayetteville. She also teaches middle school, social studies, she was first elected in 2022. She won her primary this month and she has no opponent on the November ballot. This is her second time on the cabinet. voting does begin October 15th and election day is November 3rd for those of you following. And the registration deadline is this Friday.

Peter Pappas: This is her second time on the cabinet. Early voting does begin October fifteenth and election day is November third for those of you following. And the registration deadline is this Friday,

Rep. Frances Jackson: Thank you.

Peter Pappas: October ninth. So Representative Jackson, welcome back. Thank you. Thank you for having me. So good to see you. Well, we we always have a have a good time and especially before before we're on camera. We like to cut up a little bit. you know, I I you know, I do this 'cause I want people to see that, you know, our representatives are humans. That's right. We you know. Full of flaws and and all kinds of stuff. Life happens. Life does happen. So you've been in Raleigh since twenty three. name what's one thing that you got done that someone at Hope Mills

Rep. Frances Jackson: actually cool.

Peter Pappas: can actually feel?

Rep. Frances Jackson: that would actually pass, because I've filed so many bills. But one of the things that I would say that actually passed that hope meals will be impacted by, I would say, is the Medicare expansion. A part of that, there are people in our community who are older. Our community is growing older, and everyone needs health care.

Peter Pappas: that will actually pass 'cause I've filed so many bills. okay. But one of the things that I would say that actually passed that Hope Mills will be impacted by, I would say, is the Medicare expansion. a part of that. You know, there are people in our community who are older. Our community is growing older and everyone needs health care.

Rep. Frances Jackson: I had the opportunity to pass a bill that the president of

Peter Pappas: I had the opportunity to pass a bill that the president of FTCC X did the past. Okay. Where the colleges and un I mean the colleges and universities already have passed the opportunity for them to have opportunity to have not that I'm proud of it, I didn't bra brag on this, but alcohol on campus at events. Okay. and they have property over there for Legion Road that he said, Hey, if we bring this place out, we want people to be able to have that.

Rep. Frances Jackson: FTCC asked me to pass where the colleges and universities already have passed the opportunity for them to have opportunity to have, not that I'm proud of it, didn't brag on this, but alcohol on campus at events. And they have property over there for Legion Road that he said, hey, if we rent this place out, we want people to be able to have that. and John Bell,

Peter Pappas: And John Bell

Rep. Frances Jackson: he at the time, he's now the Roos Chair at Arnie.

Peter Pappas: He at the time, he's now the rules chair at

Rep. Frances Jackson: the General Assembly, he put that bill in and he said, I asked, I why didn't the community colleges have that same opportunity? He said they didn't think about it. So I managed, said, let me show you how this works. I was so pleased because here is just where I talk about working across the aisle. He didn't have to take time for me to do that. And I explained to how important it was for FTCC. We

Peter Pappas: at at at at the General Assembly and he put that bill in and he said, I asked, I said, why didn't the community college just have that same opportunity? He said they didn't they didn't didn't think about it. So I managed he said, Let me show you how this works and I was so pleased because here he is definitely where I talk about working across the house. Yeah, yeah. He didn't have to take time for me to do that. Yeah. And I explained to him how important it was to F C C and we

Rep. Frances Jackson: worked across the aisle, went to show me how to get it done and we that.

Peter Pappas: Worked across the aisle. He went to sh show me how to get to get it done and and So thanks to you we can have liquor at JP Riddle Stadium. You can have alcohol at JP Riddle Stadium, but the big part of it is that they can rent the school can rent rent it.

Rep. Frances Jackson: You can have alcohol at J.P. Riddle Stadium, but the big part of it is that they can rent, the school can rent it,

Peter Pappas: And those people who ran it won't have that if they have that option available to them. that's good. All right. So have they renamed it from JP Riddle or still I think I don't think the I don't think it's been na renamed yet. I'm not sure. It's kind of a storied place, JP Riddle Stadium. Then we had Fable Generals. We had all kinds of people in and out of there.

Rep. Frances Jackson: those people who rent won't have that, if they have that option available to them. So have they renamed it from J.P. Riddle? I don't think it's been renamed yet. I'm not sure. The story plays J.P. Riddle Stadium, Land Papers General, and all kinds of people running out of here.

Peter Pappas: so you've been so you and you've mentioned there was a lot of ones you you proposed but didn't go anywhere. But yeah, you're definitely putting them in the chute. I am, I'm putting them there and and and some of them are

Rep. Frances Jackson: So you can so you can you mentioned there was a lot of proposed yeah, but the issues I am I'm putting them there and and some of them are

Peter Pappas: From constituents, you know, people in the community who say, Hey, you know, can you put this bill in that have this concern? And those are the ones I really get excited about whenever you have people who trust you enough to give you an idea and you run with it. Right. Yeah. Well, so your background, you were a planner for a long

Rep. Frances Jackson: from constituents, you know people in the community say hey, know, can you put this bill and I have this concern and those are the ones I really get excited about when you have people who trust you enough to give you an idea and you run Well, so your background you were playing for a time. you being a lawmaker, what is the plan? Well, you know, I was a planner for coming down, I,

Peter Pappas: time. So you being now a lawmaker, what is what does the planner in you see that other other legislators may not see? Well, you know, when I was a planner for Cumberland County, I

Rep. Frances Jackson: a minister of the zone and subcommittee ordinances. I, and I drafted several myself when I was there. And what I see is you have to prepare for things that may happen that may not live. You may not see yet. You have to plan for the future. And what I see is what is concerning to me is that a lot of the

Peter Pappas: I administered the zoning and subdivision ordinances. I d and I drafted several myself when I was there. And what I see is you you have to prepare for things that may happen that may not that you may not see yet. You have to plan for the future. Okay. And what I see is what can is concerning to me is that a lot of

Rep. Frances Jackson: those

Peter Pappas: those decisions that are made locally, there's probably would not be local anymore. They're probably made at the state level. One of the things I noticed is that

Rep. Frances Jackson: decisions that are locally, there's probably would not be local anymore. They're probably made at the state level. One of the things I noticed is that

Peter Pappas: That's a big bill out there and we'll see whether it goes through or not. But it really originated with our pro team. Where they want all the zoning and subdivision decisions made at the state level. But that that leaves the people in the community without any board. And I I think I'm familiar with what you're getting

Rep. Frances Jackson: that's a bill out there. We'll see whether it goes through or not, but it really originated with our protein where they want all the zone and subdivision decisions made at the state level. But that leaves the people in the community without any boards.

Peter Pappas: at because I know that the real t board of realtors, I know we were hot and heavy about that bill. but to my knowledge, it was basically

Rep. Frances Jackson: I know that the real border realtor, I know we were hot and heavy about that bill. But to my knowledge, it was basically to prevent, I mean, this family from blocking.

Peter Pappas: To prevent a municipality from blocking

Rep. Frances Jackson: not a one or two development, like house development. This was like the block of an entire sub-group, the entire whole sub-group. It wasn't four. So it did take some of their power away from the government. To my knowledge, it would be more kind of reasonably as that. They can appeal to the state to do it. Is it not? No, I think that, and that feels,

Peter Pappas: not a one or two development like house development. This was like for blocking an entire subdivision, an entire whole segment of building. It wasn't for so it did take some of the power away from the local but to my knowledge, it was more kind of grease in the wheels, like they can appeal to the state to move forward. Is it not? No, I think that and that feels

Rep. Frances Jackson: it was four, but I'm wondering if it's going to come back. it will. We realtors are going to push for it. Yeah. But my concern with about that is, that sometimes

Peter Pappas: It was pulled, but I'm wondering if it's gonna come back. it will. we realtors are gonna push for it. I mean yeah, yeah, yeah. But my concern w about that is is that sometimes

Rep. Frances Jackson: You don't consider all those things in the area as a planner. We look at you know the roads and what if it's on a TIP? If the developer going to put in the spot that us traffic light that's going to generate the traffic for that developer. Those are some of the things that

Peter Pappas: you don't consider all those things in the areas of planner. We looked at, you know, the roads and what if it's on the T I P. Is the developer gonna put in the spot the traffic light that's gonna generate the traffic for that developer? Okay. Those are some of the things that

Rep. Frances Jackson: as a planner those are the things you you I you look at that very closely Whereas the average person may say okay, it's a bill. It's not a good idea. Let's move forward

Peter Pappas: an as a planner, those are the things you you you eye, you look at that very closely, whereas the average person may say, Okay, it's a bill, it sounds like a good idea, let's move forward with it. That we did you know, we've done that and it's like, man, how did we get that past? I just I I don't know. I think with the so from the realtor perspective, I can say that, you know, we know that there's a lack of housing. We need more housing, more housing. Everybody wants more housing. and I think there are some municipalities

Rep. Frances Jackson: that we did, you know, we've done that and it's like, man, how did we get that? I just, I don't know. think with the, so from the realtor perspective, I can say that, you know, we know that there's a lack of housing, we need more housing, everybody wants more housing. And I think there are some municipalities that.

Peter Pappas: That we're not being efficient with moving through. But a good realtor will tell you as well, you only practice in the area that you are familiar with and you have knowledge of. So even we abide by that. And I hope that whatever ends up in that bill, they at least put some local

Rep. Frances Jackson: We're not being efficient with moving through. But a good realtor will tell you as well, you only practice in the area that you are familiar with and you have knowledge of. So even we abide by that and I hope that whatever ends up in that bill, least, but some local has to be local. Well, it's not. Sometimes it's not local because one of the representatives that spoke with about the deal, may have similar issues, but one bill doesn't fit all.

Peter Pappas: It has to be local. Well it it's not. It's sometimes it's not local because one of the representatives I spoke with about the bill we they we may have similar issues but one bill doesn't fit all. Right. Now I understand in one of the big municipalities, you know, one of my colleagues was saying they're holding up projects, mm-hmm big projects and it's because even staff sometimes can become political. I'm not sh I'm you know, I don't understand that because whenever a developer

Rep. Frances Jackson: Now I understand one of the big municipalities, you know, one of my colleagues was saying they're holding up projects Big projects and it's because even staff sometimes they become political I'm not you know, don't understand that because whenever a developer a

Peter Pappas: a realtor or anyone came in when I was supervising that shop, that department, we found ways to help them. Right. Your job is to facilitate, not screw it up. Yeah, we we we

Rep. Frances Jackson: Realtor or anyone came in when I was supervising that shop that department We found ways to help them, right? You know, we used to facilitate. Yeah. Yeah, we look at the ordinance regulations and requirements and say hey

Peter Pappas: looked at the ordinance regulations and requirements and say, hey,

Rep. Frances Jackson: you may not be able to do this, but how about this? And when they left there, they were happy. We didn't have a whole lot of these regulations where you have to them. I'll tell you, I mean, I go to city of Fayetteville, Plano's, I mean, whatever, the promance,

Peter Pappas: you may not be able to do this, but how about this? And when we when they left there they were happy. Yeah. We didn't have a whole lot of these regulations where you miss Jackson, I'm gonna tell you, I mean, I go to City of Favel, planning zoning, whatever, getting permits. the county the same way. It just seems like everybody is doing their job in their own little silo and they are afraid. I hate to say think outside the box, but they are afraid of giving any kind of advice because we're so risk averse that you could get sued. I mean, hell, if you're not doing

Rep. Frances Jackson: the county the same way. It just seems like everybody's doing their job and they're a little siloed and they are afraid. I hate to say who goes low the box, but they are afraid of giving any kind of advice because we're so risk averse that you could get sued. mean, hell, if you're not doing

Peter Pappas: your job right, you're not gonna get sued anyway. Well that was the that was what the beauty of when I was supervisor. We did planning for the entire Cumberland County and all the municipal towns. Right. Now, you know, I haven't I

Rep. Frances Jackson: job right you're not gonna get sued anyway. that was the that was what the beauty of when I was supervisor. We did plan it for the entire Cumberland County and all the municipalities. Now you know I haven't I did not experience what you were talking about and I'm sure it is. change. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not saying it happened. I'm not saying the entire system has But like I said before the broadcast you know you shouldn't need a Peter or a Jackson to get stuff done. That's right you should not.

Peter Pappas: I did not experience what you were talking about. And I'm sure it is well times change, leadership change. I you it's I'm not saying it didn't happen. I'm not saying the entire system is broke. But like I said before the broadcast, you know, you shouldn't need a Peter or Ms. Jackson to go get stuff done. That's right. My government

Rep. Frances Jackson: should work for. That's right everybody you're right I agree with you. So there are concerns on both sides and I think that one of the things that I wish we could do better in Raleigh

Peter Pappas: should work for that's right, everybody. You're right. I agree I agree with you. So there are concerns on both sides, and I think that one of the things that I wish we could do better in wrong.

Rep. Frances Jackson: is not so yes no. Let's bring it together and let's work it out and let's compromise.

Peter Pappas: Is not so not not so yes no. Let's bring it together and let's work it out and and it's compromise. And that's something our country was. are you allowed to say that? You're allowed to say that? Okay. In this room you're allowed. I don't know if you're allowed to say it out. So let me ask you this. through your time there, yeah. tell me something if if this even applies. Was there ever a time where one call from a constituent changed how you voted or what you filed?

Rep. Frances Jackson: through your time there. Tell me something, if this even applies. Was there ever a time where one call from a constituent changed how you better record what you find? Yes, sometimes I try to make sure that my spiritual beliefs don't dictate how I vote. I check myself constantly. I think one time, there was a time I was...

Peter Pappas: Yeah, sometimes I'm I try to make sure that my spiritual beliefs don't dictate how I vote. Okay. I check myself constantly. Matter of fact, one time at there was a time I would

Rep. Frances Jackson: Talk to people I respect like my past and different ones explaining why I was on the boat where I was and get advice. Now when the marijuana bill came out last year, I don't believe in, before I became a representative,

Peter Pappas: talk to you know, people I respected, like my pastor and different ones, explaining why I was gonna vote where I was and get advice. Now when the marijuana bill came out last year, you know, I don't believe in before I became a representative marijuana would definitely not being anything I would consider.

Rep. Frances Jackson: marijuana would have definitely not been anything I would have considered.

Peter Pappas: But I received so many emails from constituents in my district who said that they had different ailments, different diseases, different things that happened to them as a result of the military. People with cancer who said, Hey, medical marijuana makes me feel better. It helps my symptoms and so then when that happened, when I read that I received the calls, mostly emails,

Rep. Frances Jackson: But I received so many emails from constituents in my district who said that they had different ailments, different diseases, different things that happened to them as a result of the military. People with cancer who said, hey, medical marijuana makes me feel better, helps my symptoms. And so then when that happened, when I read that and I received the calls, mostly emails, and I was able to call them back. And they were like, man, I can't believe you called me back. But I wanted to hear more about what they were concerned about. So yeah.

Peter Pappas: And I was able to call them back and they'll be like, Man, I can't believe you called me back. But I want to hear more about what they were concerned about. So yes,

Rep. Frances Jackson: That's one issue. If it comes up, medical marijuana, I'm definitely going to vote for, because my district has so many military retirees and people who are in the military who say that helps them. if that's a part of their livelihood, I want them to be able to still continue to receive it.

Peter Pappas: that's one issue. If it comes up, Mercam medical marijuana I'm definitely gonna vote for 'cause there was my my my district is has so many military retirees and people who are in the military who say that helps them. Yeah. And and and and you know, I if that's a part of their livelihood, I want them to be able to still continue continue to receive it.

Rep. Frances Jackson: Look, I think even we can find Republicans to agree that if it's controlled medical marijuana, then I

Peter Pappas: Look, I think even we can find Republicans to agree that if it's controlled medical marijuana, then I think you could find allies for that. Speaking to some Republican can house members and senator, you know, it's like of course they're gonna blame Democrats, but you know, it's like every time we turned around and did, you know, revision, they kept adding stuff too. What would count for this or that? So like moving the goalpost to where it would have been into recreation. And that's

Rep. Frances Jackson: allies for that. Speaking to some Republican House members and senators, know, it's like, course, but you know, it's like every time we turned around and did, you know, revision, they kept adding stuff to what would count for this or that. So like moving the goalpost to where it would have been in the recreation. And that's, I think everybody has an interest to prevent. Yeah, I definitely have an interest to prevent that, but

Peter Pappas: I think everybody has an interest to prevent. Yeah, I I I definitely have an interest to prevent to prevent that, but there are some Republicans who don't even want the medal. Yeah. And that's really surprising to me because some of them are either retired military themselves. So but I am concerned about the people in my district and they call me and they say, you know, and they email and they say that that's what helped them and and and and and I think it's important that they were able to continue their livelihood with whatever time they have left here.

Rep. Frances Jackson: there are some Republicans who don't even want the medal. And that's really surprising to me because some of them are either retired military themselves. So, but I am concerned about the people in my district and they call me and they say, you know, they email me and they say that that's what helped them. And I think it's important that they were able to continue their livelihood whatever time they have left here,

Peter Pappas: That they're able to live and enjoy life, you know? Yeah.

Rep. Frances Jackson: that they're able to live and enjoy life, you know?

Peter Pappas: No, I I get you. So and I'm stepping on the side here a minute, but about those calls, you know, is that still pretty gratifying when people are surprised you call them back and that is the most gratifying part of my job is that I have a gentleman to call me and I called him back. you know, sometimes in in after school I'm bored and I go through my email. I said, I said, let me call this gentleman back and I called him back and he was telling me about

Rep. Frances Jackson: I get you. stepping on the side here a minute, about those calls, is that still pretty gratifying when people are surprised you called them back? That is the most gratifying part of my job is that I had a gentleman to call me and I called him back. Sometimes after school, I'm bored and I go through my email and say, let me call this gentleman back. And I called him back and he was telling me about

Peter Pappas: his situation about the property tax. That, you know,

Rep. Frances Jackson: his situation, about the property tax. He had saved his money for his property taxes and emergency took place. His roof began to leak and he had to spend the money to get his roof fixed. And we began to talk and I said, sir, I understand.

Peter Pappas: he had saved his money for his property taxes and emergency took place. His roofs began to leak and he gotta spend the money to get his roof fixed. And you know, we began to talk and I said, sir, you I'm you know, I understand,

Rep. Frances Jackson: you know, we'll see what we can do, if there's anything else I can do. know, last conversation, and he said, wait a minute, I can't believe you're a representative, you called me back. And he said, I'm a Republican, and next time I vote, I'm gonna vote for you. And I'm like,

Peter Pappas: you know, we'll see what we can do, if there's anything else I can do. You know, nice conversation. Yeah, yeah. And he said, wait a minute. I can't believe you're a representative, you called me back. And he said, I'm a Republican and next time I vote, I'm gonna vote for you. And I'm like

Rep. Frances Jackson: okay. I mean, you know, he said, why are you calling me back? I said, that's what I'm supposed to do. We, to me, the most gratifying part of being a representative is meeting the needs of your constituents, being their friend. Even the Republicans? Even the Republicans. I have some women who say,

Peter Pappas: Okay. I mean, you know, I I he said, Why are you calling me back? I said what supposed to do. We to me the most gratifying part of being a representative is meeting the needs of your constituents, being there, being their friends. Even the Republicans. Even the Republicans. I have you know, I have some women who say,

Rep. Frances Jackson: hey, Republicans for Francis, you know what mean? But it's not about the party, it's about helping the person. And my mom raised us to be that way, respectful,

Peter Pappas: Hey, Republicans for Francis. You know, I mean I I have it and you know, so but it's not it's not about the party, it's about helping them the person and my mom raised us to be that way, respectful.

Rep. Frances Jackson: even when I may not agree, respectful, and be there to help people. And that's what I try to do in my district.

Peter Pappas: even when I may not agree, respectful and be there to help people. And that's what I try to do in my district.

Rep. Frances Jackson: It's I just I think when people come to you and ask for help, that is pretty, it's not. Yeah, I had people my first year there, had a couple to call me who needed their child, they had adopted a baby and they couldn't get the birth certificate. We would solve that problem for them. And then I had someone who, a gentleman who had not received his benefits, retiree

Peter Pappas: It's I I just I I think when people come to you and ask for help, that is pretty that's humbling. Yes, it is. I've had I had people my first year there, I had a couple to call me who needed their child birth they had adopted a a child a baby and they couldn't get the birth certificate. And we would solve that problem for them. And then I had someone who a German who had not received his benefits. He's retiree.

Rep. Frances Jackson: from the military, who needed his benefits. we, so when those things, when you're able to do that, that is.

Peter Pappas: from the military where he needed his benefits and we so when those things when you able to do that, that is

Rep. Frances Jackson: It's just, it's just, Don't forget that's you like to say, that is why you're here.

Peter Pappas: it's just I think people forget that's that like you said, that is why you're there to be an interface to the public. We put you there. Yeah. You know, so we expect you to work. Yeah. And that doesn't mean just going and pissing off the Republicans or back in the book. And and and you know, and then the the young people, okay, young people that come from the high school to work in my office. Okay.

Rep. Frances Jackson: to be an interface to the public. We put you there. So we expect you to work. And that doesn't mean that someone is pissing off the Republicans. And then the young people, young people who come from the high schools to work in my office and seeing what they learn, just seeing their eyes open up and to that understanding of what was really going on when they hear about education bills and the debate we have about people playing different sports.

Peter Pappas: And seeing that they what they learned, it's seeing their eyes open up and to their understanding of what was really going on when they hear about education bills and the debate we have about people playing different sport. I mean it Yeah, yeah, yeah. Seeing seeing them learn that you know, the educators are it's r you know, I love it. I love it. If they learn anything, can they please, please let them see that

Rep. Frances Jackson: Just seeing them learn, the educators, I love it. love it. If they learn anything, can they please, please let them see that a Republican senator and Democrat senator will actually treat each other like human beings in the presence of each other. Can you let them see some decor that happens in those halls? I know people get pissed off at each other and that's natural. I think people say we want the same goal, we just have different ones to go about it. For the love of God.

Peter Pappas: A Republican senator and a Democrat senator will actually treat each other like human beings in the presence of each other. Can you let them see some decorum that happens in those halls? I know people get pissed off at each other and that's natural. We each I I think people say, you know, we want the same goal, we just have different ways to go about it. But for the love of God,

Rep. Frances Jackson: You know, things have changed so much from what I heard the way they were back in the day when Democrats were in control.

Peter Pappas: teach these kids. You know, it's things have changed so much from what I heard the way they were back in the day when Democrats were in control. I I I have a lot of respect. I Alex Warner. You know, Alex and I served on the ABC commission together and he came up a this summer, they were recognizing he and a few others. And to watch he and Dan Blue shake one another's hands and say, Hey man, you know, it's good seeing you and

Rep. Frances Jackson: I have a lot of respect. I a tour. Alex and I served on the ABC commission together. And he came up this summer. They were recognizing he and a few others. And to watch he and Dan Bloom shake one another's hands and say, hey, man, you know, it's good seeing you.

Peter Pappas: he and I took a picture together. I mean, those are the things that he said back in the day, for instance, we may vote against one another, but he said, But we went to dinner later.

Rep. Frances Jackson: He and I took a picture together. I mean, those are the things that he said back in the day, for instance, he may vote against one another, but he said, we went to dinner later.

Peter Pappas: Right. And talk we don't have that anymore. That's that's what's missing. Yeah, that's what's That's what's missing. So, you know. Okay, now we're gonna talk about some receipts. So three point forty seven million dollars in cash against six point one eight million due f before December in Hope Mail. So that's your district. It is not and the state put on a watch list in September. So did you see this coming? I did not. And I know some of the constituents in the community have been talking about it, but

Rep. Frances Jackson: We don't have that anymore. That's you missed. Okay, now we're going talk about some receipts. So, $3.47 million in cash against $6.18 million due before December in Hope, Nass. That's your district. It is my district. And the state put them on a watch list in September, so did you see this coming? I did not. I know some of the constituents in the community have been talking about it, but one of the things

Peter Pappas: one of the things

Rep. Frances Jackson: that we try to do. I talked to McInnes because he's the senator for that district. He said we stay out of local politics. But I'm concerned about that because I already told him, I'm telling my tax dollars for it now. Yeah, because you live in Yeah, I live in Oak Mills. I think that's where you have to buy in is that if you are affected by it, you have concerns about it. know, Bollock is from Covina County. When I see him in the halls, I see him around, you he

Peter Pappas: that we try to do, you know, I talked to McGinniska, he's senator for that district and he said we stay out of local politics. But I'm I'm concerned about that 'cause I'm I already told him, hey, I'm tired of my tax dollars going up. Well yeah, because you live in Oaklands. Yeah, I live in Hope News and I think that's where you have to buy in is that if you are affected by it, you have concerns about it. You know, Bowick is from Fit Cumming County. When I see him in the halls or see him around, you he's

Rep. Frances Jackson: always grabs

Peter Pappas: always gratif

Rep. Frances Jackson: you know, grabbing my hand or hugging me. I didn't see this coming. I think... And he said, you know, he said come see me but I was in school so I didn't get a chance to see him. And he may have told me, he may have been in a position to tell me, look, you know, this is the way to come down and help me. He made a pretty extensive audit. Now, so there are groups on Facebook that they are very active. Yeah.

Peter Pappas: you know, grabbing my hand or hugging me. I didn't see this coming. Yeah, for your Republicans running, she's a pretty okay girl. She's a pretty okay lady. So And he said, you know, he said, Come see me but I was in school so I didn't get a chance to see him. And he may have told me that he may have been in a position to tell me, Look, you know, this is the way to come down the whole he did a pretty extensive audit. Now it so there are groups on Facebook that they are very active. Yeah.

Rep. Frances Jackson: And I believe they

Peter Pappas: And I believe made

Rep. Frances Jackson: made a lot of complaints in his office and his report did substantiate like three things. know, it was, and a lot of them, was just no, there was just no basis for some of the allegations made. I am disappointed to see the upcoming departure of the town. I feel like if he had just gone in the meeting and said, Mayor Culpa, fix something, not going to happen again instead of double-downing on it.

Peter Pappas: a lot of complaints to his office and his report did substantiate like three things. Yeah. You know, it was and a lot of them there was just no there was just no basis for some of the allegations made. I'm I am disappointed to see the the depar the upcoming departure of the town manager. I I feel like if he had just gone in the meeting and said, May a culpa fix something, not gonna happen again instead of double downing on

Rep. Frances Jackson: I didn't need your permission. Really? See, I wasn't aware of that. more like that. I don't know. I think he's a smart guy. I know he's a smart guy. Yeah, but you know, there are things... Sometimes you just gotta... Well, now, you know, one of things I did in local government for the city, especially the city, one of my job was managing the budget and...

Peter Pappas: I didn't need your permission. Really? Yeah. See, I didn't I wasn't aware that it was more like that. And it's like, come on. 'Cause he's a smart guy. I know he's a smart guy. Yeah, but you know, there are things you sometimes you just gotta Well now you know, one of the things I did in local government for the city, especially the city, one of my job was managing the budget and

Rep. Frances Jackson: give a report on how we spent the money and took

Peter Pappas: giving reports on how we spent the money. Yeah. It to the

Rep. Frances Jackson: it reported to FTA and NCDOT because you know for transit you know 90 % of the money comes from the feds and 5 % local and 5 % state. So I had to get I was audited by three people. So to me some of these things is that you just have to know this is not your money and I like covered myself. I believe that's important for the feds will come in and say

Peter Pappas: reported to FTA and NCDLT because you know for transit you you know 90% of the of the money comes from the feds and five percent local and five percent state. So I had to get I was audited by three people. So to me some of these things is that you just have to know this is not your money and I like covering myself. I believe that's important because the feds will come in and say

Rep. Frances Jackson: give a

Peter Pappas: Give

Rep. Frances Jackson: these doctors you never know what they're gonna ask for. don't know that's it was done and hope it was not. They had a little mess up there but again I just didn't know if he doubled down. Pretty much did. Now I'd love to get him on the record and talk about that but that was my impression of how I read the reporting that he's done on that.

Peter Pappas: us these documents. You never know what they're gonna ask for. I don't know if that's how it was done in Hope Mills or not. It yeah, well they had a they had a little mess up there, but again, I I just I didn't know if he doubled down like he pretty much did. Now I and I I would love to get him on the record and talk about that, but that was my impression of how I read the reporting that was done on that meeting. It just

Rep. Frances Jackson: I was surprised because I know how smart the guy is.

Peter Pappas: I was I was surprised 'cause I know how smart the guy is. So anyway. But I don't know. But we'll see. I know that be I'm I don't I'm not sure and that's something that you when I go up the route. I'm going I'll be up there tomorrow and I may try to stop by and see what does that mean. Yeah. But then again it's not my business. You know, s what we try to do is stay away. If they call me about, hey, what can we do? Well but no one called me and said, Hey, we need help or your advice or anything like that and I don't think they did it did it with

Rep. Frances Jackson: I don't know. But we'll see. know that being I'm not sure and that's something that you know when I go up there I'm going I'll be up there tomorrow and I may try to spot by and see what does that mean. But then again it's not my business. You know what we try to do is stay away. If they call me about hey what can we do. But no one called me and said hey we need help or your advice or anything like that and I don't think they did it with

Peter Pappas: McC Senator McKinnon either. Well thanks for bringing me

Rep. Frances Jackson: Senator McHenry. Well thanks for bringing me to question number three. So is this solely a hooknails problem? Is it a state problem or just a warning for every small town? Not just in Cumberland County. You you look around I'm looking across the state and this is I mean Cary come on now I mean that's the creme de la creme right there we talked about. the custom ray bands? No they're the ones whose managers spent the money and we

Peter Pappas: Question number three. so is this solely a Hope Mills problem? Is it a state problem or just a warning for every small town in Cumberland County? Not just in Cumberland County. You know, you look around, I'm looking across the state and this is I mean, Carrie come on now. I mean, that's the creme de la creme right there. Were you talking about a community? Were they doing custom raybans? Was that them? No, they're the ones whose manager spent the money and He ordered

Rep. Frances Jackson: ordered really? Wow!

Peter Pappas: custom radio. did he? I just know with the town and the name on it. Yeah. really? Wow.

Rep. Frances Jackson: One of the things that I'll be looking at is some things that were some safeguards for the future. And I'll just put it like that without saying it just yet because I'm working with some people on the other side of the aisle to help me with some things. But I had heard the rumor that things were bad. But like you said, those things were not substantiated until after the audit. And when the audit came out,

Peter Pappas: one of the things that we're I'll be looking at is some things that were some safeguards for the future. Okay. And I just put it like that without saying just yet because I'm working with some people on the other side of the aisle to help me with some things, but I did not I had heard rumor that things were bad, but like you said, those things were not substantiated until after the audit and when the audit came out.

Rep. Frances Jackson: I was like, wow. And I got to see my LASD, Dr. Jackson Bolick's office called

Peter Pappas: I was like, wow, and now if I see my LA dad, Dr. Jackson Bolloch's office called

Rep. Frances Jackson: want you to come back. I'm in school and I didn't get a chance to get there, but I don't think that that would have prevented anything. He probably would have me a heads up, but hey, these are coming out. You the representative. You're the one spending money in the town. That's not you. Yeah, exactly. I don't think he's calling you on the carpet for nothing. So the

Peter Pappas: and want you to come by but I'm in school and and I didn't get a checks to get there, but I don't think that that is it it would have prevented anything. He probably was giving me a heads up that hey this is coming out. You the representative. You're the one spending the money in the town. Yes. That's not you. You're not writing checks. Yeah. I don't think I don't think he's calling you on the carpet for nothing. So so The town's finance director has quoted they said that the watch list shouldn't be read as a state takeover. What's your opinion on that?

Rep. Frances Jackson: town's finance director has quoted, they said that the watch list shouldn't be read as a state-counselor. What's your opinion on it? that reading on the watch list is not a safe thing. Well, that's what I was saying. I don't know what that means exactly. But I would certainly think that some changes are needed in terms of how business is being done. Matter of it's ironic I attended a

Peter Pappas: That well being on the watch list is not a state takeover. Well, I guess that's what I was saying. I don't know what that means exactly. but I was certainly think that some changes are needed in terms of how business is being done. Matter of fact, it's ironic, I attended a a a event that this week in a campaign candidate a candidates event and a young lady walked up to me and said, Hi, I'm Brittany. I said, Okay. She said, We've been emailing one another. I said, Okay. She said, I'm the finest director for Hope Meal. I said, okay. Yeah. Money girl. Okay. I'm thinking, okay. So there's some things that I think they all learn in that process because the money

Rep. Frances Jackson: a campaign candidate and the young lady walked up to me and said, Hi, I'm Brittany. I said, okay. She said, we've been emailing one another. I said, okay. She's got the finance director for whole. I said, nice to meet you. You know, I'm just looking, I'm thinking, okay. So there are some things that I think they are learning that process about the money that

Peter Pappas: that they received in the budget this year, they was and some money they received before they called my office and and sent a letter

Rep. Frances Jackson: they're receiving the budget this year. was, and for money they received before they called my office and sent a letter.

Peter Pappas: one to know if they had approval to spend it. And I did get confirmation that they did so they said, can we get that in writing? So I think them things are changing. I said, yeah I'll give you that in writing. W what I don't understand is how can Hope Mills not have a system or Fayville not have a system for

Rep. Frances Jackson: and know if they had approval to spend it. And I did get confirmation that they did. So they said, can we get that in writing? So I think them things are changing. I said, yeah, I'll give you that in writing. What I don't understand is how can hope mills not have a system or they could not have a system for...

Peter Pappas: contract management or how can Carrie have this

Rep. Frances Jackson: contract management or how can Kerry have this open just something that's been while. You know, why is there not a standardized way to do the towns book? Right, right. Well, I'm gonna say what I think because back in the day, like I said, we were playing for everyone, including Hope Neils. And I think the management responsibilities and the

Peter Pappas: open just somebody had the credit card and went wild. You know, why is there not a standardized way to do a town's books? Right, right. Well I'm gonna I'm gonna say what I think because back in the day, like I said, we were playing for everyone, including Hope Mills. And I think the management responsibilities and the the ac accountability has changed over the years because, you know

Rep. Frances Jackson: the accountability has changed over the years. Charlotte, this was a small community. They probably operated by the shake of a hand, whereas now they can't do that anymore. about my tax money for property taxes. There's gotta be a system in place. One of the things, like I said, I some guardrails I'm working on right now.

Peter Pappas: Charlot me Charlotte, Hope Mills was a small community and they probably w operated by a hang the shake of a hand. Whereas now, you know, they're every time you're taking my tax money for property taxes, there's there's gotta be a system in place. One one of the thing I can say I have some guard guardrails I'm working on right now. One of the things I'm finding is that the people are being elected. Mm-hmm. And when I say that I don't mean in a negative way, it's just that the the people who are being elected now

Rep. Frances Jackson: the things I'm finding is that the people are being elected. And when I say that, don't mean in a negative way, it's just that the people who being elected now may not have that background with budget or finance like someone like myself who worked in government. And they are relying on that manager to tell them. And if he was a planner, like I think he ended up getting the position. He was the planner. I applied for that job too. And so I would have

Peter Pappas: may not have that background with budget and finance like someone like myself who worked in government. And they're they're they are relying on that manager to tell them. And if he was a planner like I think I he ended up getting the position. He was a planner. I apply for that job too. Okay. And so I would

Rep. Frances Jackson: that he had some experience dealing with budgets and finances like I did. So I think he would have brought that to the table and they're relying on him to advise them as well. see,

Peter Pappas: think that he'd had some experience dealing with budgets and finances like I did. So I would think we would have brought that to the table. They're relying on him to advise them as way. Well and see That's I think we want to elect the electeds and we want them to just hire a good town manager or city manager. But I referenced City of Fable contract administration. You know, we had the big kerfuffle with the fire station, all that crap.

Rep. Frances Jackson: that's I think we want to elect the electives and we want them to just hire a good town manager or city manager. But I'd reference city of available contract administration. You we have that big kerfuffle with the fire station and all that crap.

Peter Pappas: But apparently we just didn't have a position in our city government that would keep an eye. But we're not a little city anymore. Well at what point do we say, okay, these sized cities need this kind of management?

Rep. Frances Jackson: But apparently we just didn't have a position in our city government that we keep it up But we're not a little city anymore. But at what point did we say okay these size cities need this kind of management? Well, I know they they used to now I work for the city of Fayetteville. They had a contract manager. I'm not sure the title but that's what I'm No, no Craig, I forget Craig, he's in my district. Not Harman, he's a client. But the Craig that was the contract manager when he retired it may have gotten rid of the position. Okay.

Peter Pappas: Well, I know they they used to. Now I work for the city of Fairb. They had a a contract manager. I'm not sure of the title, but that's what I mean. I forget Craig's last name. He lives in my district. Not Harmon, he's the plan. Okay. But the Craig that was the contract manager, when he retired, they may have gotten rid of the position. Okay. And that may

Rep. Frances Jackson: Because he lives in my district and I talked to him and I said, didn't you say, I retired and they did ask him to come back,

Peter Pappas: have what 'cause he lives in my district and I talked to him and I said, Why didn't he say he said I retired and they did ask him to come back?

Rep. Frances Jackson: but he didn't want to get involved because was already messed up. So he said, I don't want to get in on that. So I'm just saying that over the years, I recall all these things being in place. But now that with new people come on, this change takes place, they may find, that's not needed anymore. And I'm not going to harp on old Mr. Doug Hewitt.

Peter Pappas: But he didn't want to get involved 'cause it's already messed the or it's already messed up. Nobody wants to. I don't want to get in on that. So I'm just saying that over the years I recalled all these things being in place. But now that with new people come on, as change takes place, they may find, it's not that's not needed in the moment. So and I'm not gonna harp on old Mr. Doug Hewitt here, but you know, he's been the city manager for a long time. So if there was a position that we needed, he should have just kept it. But

Rep. Frances Jackson: But you know, he's been the city man for a long time. So there was a position that we knew that was kept. That's another episode. Well, don't know, Doug left and went away and came back. yeah, he does know now. Doug was my supervisor over transit, over the transit department. I'm not letting him know that. Yeah, yeah.

Peter Pappas: That's another episode. Well Deg d Doug left and went away and came back. Yeah, but I think that was enough. yeah, he does know now. Doug was my supervisor over over transit over the transit department. I'm not letting him off that in he knows enough but now he he he is responsive when he's asked questions, so I'm not gonna Yeah, yeah. Doug's a good guy. But yeah, but I I I definitely have concerns about how things have turned out. I haven't reached out to anyone yet. asked what' what happened, but

Rep. Frances Jackson: He is responsive to what he's asked questions about. Yeah, yeah, but I definitely have concerns about how things have turned out. I haven't reached out to anyone yet to ask what happened, but when things, I can call the mayor, the mayor bell file to say, what's going on? How can I help? I'm just kind of trying to let things settle down for Monday night. Cause I understand it it very interesting meeting Monday night and see if there's anything they would like to meet.

Peter Pappas: When things I you know, I can call the mayor the Mayor Belfows and say, Look, what's going on? How can I help? I'm just kinda trying to let things settle down for Monday night 'cause I understand it may yeah it's very interesting to meet in Monday night and see if there's anything they would like for me

Rep. Frances Jackson: do. But I try, I've observed in Raleigh how the representatives have taken over certain areas of towns and the people didn't want it.

Peter Pappas: to do. But I try I've I've observed in Raleigh how the representatives have taken over certain areas of towns and the people didn't want it.

Rep. Frances Jackson: So I'm trying not to be pushing for Nobody wants their town on remote control. Nobody wants to be a spread light. I'm sorry, that, you know, local governor commission needed to go in and needed to set some boundaries. You know, but unfortunately they didn't learn.

Peter Pappas: So I I'm trying not to be pushed. Nobody wants their town on remote control. Nobody wants to be a Spring Lake. No, I mean sorry, but that you know, local government commission needed to go in and needed to set some boundaries. you know, but unfortunately they didn't learn.

Rep. Frances Jackson: It was around, so remember it was around credit card issues. Yeah, the water bill. and you just don't need to give everybody a credit card.

Peter Pappas: It was around so remember it was around the credit card issues. Yeah, that was you were given and the water bills. Yeah. And you just don't need to give everybody a credit card.

Rep. Frances Jackson: Well, I wouldn't

Peter Pappas: Well, I I I don't believe I could I would want one. I had one with the city, but even if you do, I mean you gotta limit who gets it and don't be surprised when somebody buys formula at one I mean, people need to take care of themselves first and they're gonna they will be doing desperate things if they need it. So Well you know, like when there's when there's structure in place and then it's all about the individual and the the the ethics of that individual. You know, I had a credit card with the CDFA, but I think it had maybe fifteen

Rep. Frances Jackson: want one. I had one with the city, but... Even if you do, you've got to limit the getsa. And don't be surprised when somebody buys one of them. People need to take care of themselves first. And they will be doing desperate things if they need it. Well, know, when there's structure in place, and then it's all about the individual and the ethics of that individual. I had a credit card with CFF, but I think it had maybe $1,500. $200 off

Peter Pappas: hundred dollars off. Mm-hmm. And there were things I could not buy with it. One, I knew I couldn't buy anything for myself. I was not allowed to buy computers. I was not so there were things at the limit and it was laid out. But whenever you have small towns like that, they may not understand that you gotta answer to somebody about this. And I'm sure it was a good idea for somebody. I think your camera. hold on.

Rep. Frances Jackson: and there are things I could not buy with it one I knew I couldn't buy anything myself I was not allowed to buy computers I was not so there were things as a limit and it was laid out But whenever you have small towns like that, they may not understand that you got to ask somebody about this And I'm sure it was a good idea for somebody

Peter Pappas: Hello. Hold on. Don't panic. We can cut that part out. Okay. Yeah, yeah, sure. Let me

Rep. Frances Jackson: Okay, you can cut that part out. Yeah, we can show you. can get the actual length. it does. sorry. I thought you froze, but then I that's the thing I can do.

Peter Pappas: If we get to that computer. It just I'm sorry. I thought you froze, but then no, that's let me put it on your face again. There we go. A little more. There we go. Okay. well

Rep. Frances Jackson: cool.

Peter Pappas: why did it do that?

Rep. Frances Jackson: Yeah, of course. This is why we're recording and not know why. Yeah, exactly. can actually, I should go back and fix this. Even if it did that though, it's encoded the whole frame. But I did not, and something, something that you know about him doubling down, that sound like something that happened in closed session, maybe, I don't know. It was reported. Really?

Peter Pappas: Yeah, push this is why this is why we're recording and not going live. 'Cause I can I can actually I can actually go back and fix this. Even if it did that though, it's encoded the whole frame. So I'll be able to refocus. Okay. I gotcha. But I did not I and sound like something that you know about him doubling down that that sounded like something that may have happened in a closed session, maybe. I don't know. It was reported. Really?

Rep. Frances Jackson: Well, I can tell you I have great concerns about my town. love Hope Mids, I've been there for 30 years and whatever it takes. One of the things that I learned whenever the report came out that they went over

Peter Pappas: Well, I can tell you I I have great concerns about my town. I love Hope Miss. I've been there for thirty years and whatever it takes. I I one of the things that I learned whenever the report came out that they went over their you know, the money that they're supposed to have in reserves, that's something that's done that's not anything abnormal.

Rep. Frances Jackson: the money that they're supposed to have on reserves. That's something, that's not anything abnormal for communities and state, you know, for any government. It's basically they just did the learning that's supposed to have Yeah, exactly. So it wasn't criminal and I was like, okay, well, they'll fix it. And I understand that there were some things being put into place.

Peter Pappas: For communities and for state, you know, for any government. It's basically they just dipped below what they were supposed to have on hand as a reserve. So it was a criminal and I was like, Okay, well it they'll fix it and I understand that there were some things being put in place, but I did not I don't know what it means to have this. I don't think it means that the L the they're gonna come in on the town. I don't I think it's just a warning. I don't think we're there yet. Yeah, I don't think we are either. I think it's well, it's a watch list, which means probably just some guidance being offered. Right.

Rep. Frances Jackson: But I did not, I don't know what it means to have this. I don't think it means that they're going to come in on the town. think it's just a warning. I don't think we're there yet. Yeah, I think we are either. But it's a watch list, which means there's some guidance being offered. Right. Yeah. And I want to make sure of that. But at the same time, I don't want to myself in anything that the mayor and the commission may not want me to be involved with. you can't tell another elected body what to do. You've got to stay in your lane.

Peter Pappas: Yeah, I don't want to make sure of that, but at the same time I don't want to put myself in anything that the mayor and the commissioner may not want me to be involved in Well, they need Yeah, you you can't tell another elected body what to do and you gotta stay in your lane. And and and I don't you know, I teach political science at FTCC and it's a it amazes me that the lack of understanding that people have about the le the levels of government and what each person is responsible for.

Rep. Frances Jackson: I teach political science at FGCC and it amazes me that the lack of understanding that people have about the levels of government and what each person is responsible for.

Peter Pappas: And some of them are in office. I'm like, God, you know. So I respect the town and the members of the board. All of them are great individuals. And if they have any

Rep. Frances Jackson: And some of them are in office. like, God, you know. So I respect the town and the members of the board. All of them are great individuals. if they have any...

Peter Pappas: concerns or they have any need help, I'm there for them. And and I think I've already, you know, expressed that with them over the years and they they know. So Okay. Well, I got a few others to wrap up here. So let's talk about nine one one.

Rep. Frances Jackson: concerns are they have any need help I'm there for them and I think I've already you know expressed that within over the years and they they know so I got a few others that wrap up here so let's talk about 9-1-1 okay I know you're gonna love this one so you can sponsor a deal with two and a half million dollars to merge the city in the county 901 center the task force

Peter Pappas: Okay. I know you're gonna love this one. So you co sponsored a bill with two and a half million dollars to merge the city and the county nine one one center. the task force still hasn't agreed on who's gonna run the director, and Senator McGinnis's September deadline has come and gone. So is the assembly about to step in? Let me first tell you this. I did not sponsor the nine one one bill. Let me tell you what happened with that bill. That bill was it came to the House

Rep. Frances Jackson: and Senator McPenny's September deadline has come and gone. So is the assembly locked to a step in? Let me first tell you this. I did not sponsor the 9-1-1 deal. Let me tell you what happened with that deal. That deal was, it came to the House as a bill to allow alcohol sales and stabbing. Right.

Peter Pappas: as a bill to allow alcohol sales in standing. Right. I remember that. Okay. That's all I know. It was attached to that one? It went over to the Senate and it became a nine one one bill. So whenever it came out that, you know, this is what was going on, I heard the rumblings. I was never invited to a meeting. Okay. Mayor Coven came up Raleigh. He and his

Rep. Frances Jackson: Okay, that's all I know. It was attached to that one. It went over to the Senate and it became a 9-1-1 deal. So whenever it came out that you know this is what was going on. I heard the rumours I was never invited to a meeting. Mayor Colvin came to Raleigh. He and his all his

Peter Pappas: all his

Rep. Frances Jackson: department heads almost would say the public safety guys I mean. Yeah. And they came to Raleigh and it was being heard at the scene and it was pulled. What about county representation? know, from the county show when you were calling them? I don't recall them. I mean, it was for them so they probably wouldn't need to be there. I was told that

Peter Pappas: department heads almost I would say that entourage public public staff with public safety guys I mean. Yeah, yeah. And they came to Raleigh and it was being heard in the s at the Senate and it was full. What about county representation? Anybody from the county show when Miss Mayor Coleman did? You don't remember? I don't recall any yeah. Well I mean they I mean it was for them so they probably wouldn't need to be there. I was told that

Rep. Frances Jackson: the house, you know, the house, like I said, was a statement of year. were supposed to decide on Steadman-Wicker sales. That's it. That's how we did vote on. What did you do? Did you vote for it or? I voted for... So how did it get back in the Senate? It went to, it goes to the Senate and then at the Senate level it was attached. With a attachment. Yes. And so it never came back to the house. Okay.

Peter Pappas: The house hadn't you know, the house we like I said with the state. You were supposed to decide on studman liquor sales. That's it. That's all we did for the And then when you what did you do? Did you did you vote for it or I voted for So I mean so how did it get back to the Senate? Did you all vote for it and it went? Yeah, it goes to the Senate and then at the Senate level it was attached. Then they attached. Yes. Okay. And so it never came back to the House. Okay.

Rep. Frances Jackson: So yeah, so all of that conversation and all that,

Peter Pappas: So yeah. So, you know, all of that conversation and all that that

Rep. Frances Jackson: the Senate, it was all in the Senate, what did happen there.

Peter Pappas: The Senate it was all in the Senate. What did the House live? Okay. So

Rep. Frances Jackson: well, let's move on property tax. We have three amendments on the ballot in the fall. Let's talk about the property tax. So the one on the ballot, it says it's going to make lawmakers cap how much local governments can raise the property taxes. Hope Mills is short of cash right now. So I'm going to for this bill. Well, it's an amendment. It's an amendment. You know, I'm not a fan of amendments because it's so hard to change them.

Peter Pappas: well, let's move on then. Property tax amendment. We have three amendments on the ballot in the fall. Let's talk about the property tax amendment. So the one on the ballot, it says it's gonna make lawmakers cap how much local governments can raise the property taxes. Hope Mills is short of cash right now. So how are you gonna vote for this bill? Or well it's an amendment, so the amendment. You know, I'm not a fan of amendments because it's so hard to change them.

Rep. Frances Jackson: Now I was on the property tax committee and yes, I do agree that some

Peter Pappas: Now I was on this property tax committee and yes I do agree that something

Rep. Frances Jackson: needs to be done because I think Pope Mills has taxed us three times consecutively. I'm not happy about that. What do you think the motivation for, because in a moment it's a serious business. It is. So to me you got to really upset the bag of rattlesnakes to really get us this far to have proposed one.

Peter Pappas: needs to be done because I think Hope Mills has taxed us three times consecutively. I'm not happy about that. Where where do you think the motivation for 'cause an amendment's a serious business. It is. So to me, you gotta really upset the bag of rattlesnakes to really get us this far to have a proposed one.

Rep. Frances Jackson: Was it they that were to counter cause this problem or was it,

Peter Pappas: Was it Fayeville Cumberland County causing this problem or was it?

Rep. Frances Jackson: do we have other maybe hotspots in the state that are? I think it's all over the state. Everyone, from what I can tell, I see the property tax committee that those members on there, which I'm a member and then I think the representative, Wheatley is on the committee. I put in a bill for property tax exemptions for the military.

Peter Pappas: Do we have other maybe hot spots in the state that are I think it's all over the state. Everyone ev from what I could tell, 'cause see the property tax committee, that those members on there, which I'm a member, and then I think representative is on the on the committee. I put in a bill for property tax exemptions for the military. And then someone called me said, You know, you're on the property I didn't know. So I think that's where most of us came from. We

Rep. Frances Jackson: And then someone comes in, you know you're on the property? I didn't know. So I think that's why most of us came from

Peter Pappas: on being on those bills.

Rep. Frances Jackson: being on those fields. Yes, have concerns about people not being able to keep their homes because they're elderly and they're not. So a cap will be great for them, not the constituent. I told you that columnist said he was saving money for his taxes, but then the roof happened. So I think they need to be, I think most people are happy that the cap gives them an understanding or a heads up about how much the tax they'll have to pay. But let me be clear.

Peter Pappas: Yes, I have heart concerns about people not being able to keep their homes because they're elderly and they're not so a cap will be great for them. Like the constituent, I told you that called me and said he was saving money for his taxes, but then the roof happened. Right, right. So I think they need to be I think most people are happy that the the cap gives them an understanding or a heads up on about how much the tax they'll have to pay. But the be let me be clear.

Rep. Frances Jackson: on the tax committee, property tax committee, there's no plan to lower people's taxes. And if we wanted to, as a general assembly, we would lower them without this amendment. And the reason I'm concerned about that is because we have an amendment to the Constitution that, since I've been in Raleigh, we've been trying to have removed, and it's hard to get those removed. That's why. The literacy test.

Peter Pappas: On the tax committee, profit tax committee, there's no plan to lower people's taxes. Right. And if we wanted to as a general assembly, we would lower them without this amendment. And the reason I'm concerned about that is because we have an amendment to the constitution that since I've been in Raleigh, we've been trying to have removed. And it's hard to get those removed. That's why the literacy test.

Rep. Frances Jackson: Yes, it's still in the books. It was passed in 1900

Peter Pappas: Yes, it's still on the Talk to me. Talk to me. It was it was passed in nineteen hundred. Okay.

Rep. Frances Jackson: and you had to be able to read whatever they put before you before you could vote. So we have been trying since I've been up there, if not before, one of the representatives in the house, actually he's my whip, he's from Fayetteville but he represents Charlotte. He grew up and graduated from E. Smith and his moved to Charlotte.

Peter Pappas: And you had to be able to read whatever they put before you before you can vote. So we're trying we have been trying since I've been up there, if not before. One of the representatives in the house, actually he's my whip. He's from Failville, but he represents Charlotte. Grew up in graduate smith and parents moved to Charlotte.

Rep. Frances Jackson: He has put in every year the literacy test to be removed. And

Peter Pappas: He has put in every year the liter the literacy test to be removed. Right. And

Rep. Frances Jackson: again, you can't remove it because it seems like... it have to go to a public vote or is it just within the legislature? Well, even within the legislature, when it leaves the House and goes to the Senate, I don't know whether... You just can't get support We can't get support to pull it out. I don't know what's going on there. So that's one of the concerns I have about those amendments.

Peter Pappas: Again, you can't remove it because it seemed like the Well does it have to go to a public vote or is it just within the legislature? Well, even with even within the legislature, when it leaves the House or goes to the Senate, I don't know whether you just can't get support to pull it out. And

Rep. Frances Jackson: you know, like I said, once they get become constitutional on the Constitution, it's hard to do a move on when you can do all those things in the bill.

Peter Pappas: you know, like I said, once they get become constitutional on the constitution, it's hard to remove when you can do all those things in a bill. You know what I'm saying? What we're talking about in these amendments, whether you for it or not,

Rep. Frances Jackson: You know what saying? We're talking about these amendments, whether you forward or not. you can do it in the bill and hear you say, and this go on, let's move on. And that's, that's my concern with it. don't think we need to solidify it. I just think there's energy around legislation that you could just do it. Yeah. Yeah. So there's always a plan in place for why things are problem though, also is that it's such a hard issue this year with the revaluations that a lot of the news companies underwent

Peter Pappas: you can do it in a bill and have your say and just go on and move on. I and that's that's my concern with it. I don't think we need to solidify it. Right. In the constitution. I just think there's enough there's enough energy around legislation that you could just do it. Yes, yes. so there's always a plan in place for why I think my problem though also is that it's such a hot issue this year with the revaluations that a lot of the municipalities underwent.

Rep. Frances Jackson: that people are pissed off and they're going to see something that says let the legislature

Peter Pappas: that people are pissed off and they're gonna see something that says let the legislature

Rep. Frances Jackson: control thinking it automatically the way it's on that ballot kind of implies that the county is too stupid to handle it and you need to let mama and daddy at state but it doesn't give you guys any numbers to regulate it's just basically here's give me the give me the legislature the ability

Peter Pappas: control thinking it automatically the way it's written on that ballot kind of implies that the county is too stupid to handle it and you need to let mama and daddy of the state handle it I but it doesn't give you guys the any numbers to regulate to. It's just basically here's gonna give me the give me the legislature the ability

Rep. Frances Jackson: to start making up rules

Peter Pappas: to start making up rules. Right, right. Is there a better, simpler way to look? I is that oversimplified? You are a you're all right, but one of the things that that people are not looking at is for them to get to blow their property taxes, it'll probably become a local issue where they're gonna have to decide within their budget,

Rep. Frances Jackson: Is there a better, simpler way to look at it? No, you are right, but one of the things that people are not looking at is for them to get to lower their property taxes and it probably become a local issue. They're going to have to decide within their budget. What are we going to limit green property taxes down? And I say, these people, have they had the community, the members of the community thought about that? I mean, want my taxes picked up twice,

Peter Pappas: what are we gonna eliminate to bring property taxes down? And I'm saying have these people have they have the community the members of the community thought about that? I mean you want my trash has peaked up twice. Am I gonna have give that up? Because they used to be picked up more often. That's the thing. People don't understand when the taxes go up, a lot of times the budgets are revenue neutral, which means with this much more money, or if I want to offer this much services, then I gotta only charge this much. Right, right. So they're not supposed to make more with raising the property

Rep. Frances Jackson: am I going have to get that up? Because it used to be picked up more often. That's the thing, people won't understand, when taxes go up, a lot of times the budgets are revenue neutral, which means with this much more money, if I want to offer this much services, then I got to only charge this much. Right, right. So they're not supposed to make more with raising the property. taxes but if they're spending it half-nasically. And see, and that's the other thing, you know,

Peter Pappas: taxes, but if they're spending it haphazardly. And see, and that's the other thing, you know.

Rep. Frances Jackson: there has to be some accountability with big budgets just have oversight and say

Peter Pappas: there has to be some ca accountability within budgets to s have oversight and say,

Rep. Frances Jackson: Okay, you know, I'm not our taxes should not be raised to be used for mistakes that may be made that people just move on. I, I'm concerned, I'm concerned. And it's not just for common, it's across the system. It's issue across the state that local because around February, if I can remember back 30 years ago, I have a long ago,

Peter Pappas: okay, you know, I'm not our taxes should not be raised to be used for mistakes that may have been made. Like you can just move on. But I I I I'm concerned. I'm concerned and it's not just for Camberland. I'm it's across just an a issue across the state that local 'cause you know, around February, if I can remember back thirty years ago, however long ago, Around February they're gonna start looking at who received budget money last year, who haven't spent it. If they don't spend it by

Rep. Frances Jackson: around February, they're gonna start looking at who received budget money last year, who haven't spent it. If they don't spend it by they're going say don't spend it. Hold on to it and then they'll start the budget process from there. The manager sent out the other, the mayor sent out, everybody need to cut their budget by 15 % or whatever it is. And when you do that, you got to look at services. Or even with the local money, even with transit receiving so much for new buses,

Peter Pappas: March, they're gonna say don't spend it. Hold on to it and then they'll start the budget process from there. You know, the mantra sent out Doug or the mayor sent out everybody need to cut their budget by fifteen percent or whatever it is. And when you do that, you gotta look at services. Or, you know, even with you know the local money, even with transit receiving so much for new buses for

Rep. Frances Jackson: for changing routes, getting people to their jobs, it's an economic issue, it's an economic concern.

Peter Pappas: changing routes, getting people to their jobs. It's an economic issue. It's an economic concern. And that's how I've always looked at it. When we was on the profit tax committee, I thought this is the economic concern. Well, like I said, it's it looks attractive. Low hanging fruit. Yes, I want my taxes lower. Yeah. Yeah. But what are we really giving to the legislature that they shouldn't be able to do already with legislation? Right.

Rep. Frances Jackson: And that's how I've always looked at it. When we was on the property tax committee, I this is an economic concern. Well, like I said, it looks attractive. Low hang improved. Yes, I my taxes lower. what are we really giving to the legislature that they shouldn't be able to do already with legislation? Right.

Peter Pappas: of course the income tax thing I said before we even turned on the the cameras that

Rep. Frances Jackson: course the income tax thing I said before we even turn on the cameras that I've not heard of any industry saying I would love to locate in North Carolina except for that damn whatever it is not career-ending you know it's not but again low hanging through let's pay less taxes cool yeah but it's like today you know we did a gas

Peter Pappas: I've not heard of any industry saying I would love to locate in North Carolina except for that damn what five percent income tax whatever it is. It's not it is not career ending income tax. But again, low hanging fruit. Yeah. Let's pay less taxes. Cool. Where's it gonna come from? Yeah, but I'd say today, you know, we did the gas tax.

Rep. Frances Jackson: My office wants to include utilities, groceries, and health.

Peter Pappas: my coffee want to include utilities, groceries, and health.

Rep. Frances Jackson: because if you're going to give the people, we're talking about really giving them a break. Let's really give them a break. Give them some money to circulate through the community and the economy and allow them, because this is only going to be until November 3rd. And we all voted for it, I know, it's a stunt. It's a stunt, yeah. Get you to the polls. And we could have had this conversation last week. We would have. Yeah. And one of the things that my leader, Lee D'Ri, said was, hey, we have to remember...

Peter Pappas: Because if we're gonna give the people and we're talking about really giving them a break. Let's really give a break. You know, give them some money to put in to circulate through the the community and in the economy and allow them 'cause this is only gonna be until November thirtieth. And we all voted for it, but well, I know it's a stunt. You know, and we could have had this conversation last. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, one of the things that my leader, Lared, said was, Hey, we have to remember

Rep. Frances Jackson: We did not get the gas has been hot since spring. Why just now? You know, the fire all over again. again, sounds good. Let's get everybody to polls. Let's get my break, comma, however, however, how I see that. Where's that money going to come from? You already make a budget. Yes, we did. Yeah, that's $400 million. We're not received during that time. So

Peter Pappas: We did not the we know the gas had been high since spring. Why just now? Yeah. We didn't start the fire all over again. And again sounds good. Let's get everybody the polls. Let's give a break, comma, however, however the hell I suppose to say that. where's that money gonna come from? Because didn't y'all already make a budget, assuming you're getting that money? Yeah, that's four hundred million dollars we will will not receive during that time, so

Rep. Frances Jackson: who normally gets that money? Because they said it was trying to be a balance between.

Peter Pappas: Who normally gets that money? 'Cause they said it was trying to be a balance between helping the people and still not hurting N C D O T because you know the gas tax money goes to so many things dealing with transportation and transit. Mm-hmm. So I'm not sure how they're gonna do without four hundred million dollars. So they're trying to get in the road. Exactly. Somebody's pothole's not gonna be that's right. That's right. Well, I mean, don't they still give money to the municipalities for

Rep. Frances Jackson: helping the people and still not hurting NCDOT because you know the gas tax money goes to so many things dealing with transportation and transit. So I'm not sure how they're gonna do without 400 million dollars. Somebody's gonna get in the road. Exactly. Somebody's pothole's not gonna be closed exactly. Well I mean don't they still give money to the municipalities for another good thing like 10, 12 million dollars a year for Yes, the county doesn't do roads but they might be doing something else.

Peter Pappas: I know they give Fayeville like what, ten, twelve million dollars a year for Yeah, the county doesn't do roads, but they might be doing something else.

Rep. Frances Jackson: serious moment for a big role. So I'm gonna go out on a limb. I'm not gonna you call it wrong. I'm gonna call it wrong for this session. The General Assembly did us wrong. So it's gonna come back to us. The problem is, you've only got so much money to deal with.

Peter Pappas: The city is the one who does they do the roads. So I'm gonna go out on a limb. I I'm not gonna let you call it wrong. I'm gonna call it wrong for this session the General Assembly did us wrong on the tax. 'Cause it's gonna come back to Bikas. The problem is it it's you've only got so much money to deal with.

Rep. Frances Jackson: and you can correct me I'm wrong, I think, did

Peter Pappas: and you can correct me if I'm wrong. I think Did they get rid of with N C D V the renewal tags? Yeah, with the it became effective, I think, last Thursday, Friday. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was the October rules. Yeah. and then but I heard that they're getting rid of emissions testing, but now the safety inspection's going from like twenty two to forty

Rep. Frances Jackson: they get rid of, with NCBMB, the renewal tax? Yes, they did. It became effective, I think, last Thursday or That number first. think, yeah. And then, but I heard that they didn't remove emissions testing, but now the safety inspection's going from like 22 to 40. dollars yeah yeah yeah so they got rid of the emissions but now they're just charging way more for the safety. So they're get on the other side. They're gonna on the other side. The house always wins. Look whenever

Peter Pappas: dollars. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So they got rid of the emissions, but now they're just charging way more for the safety. So they can get it on the other side. They're gonna get it on the other side. The house always went. Yeah. See, that's look. Whenever I find somebody that is grifting or stealing, and I'm like, Good for you, 'cause eventually house always wins and they're gonna find you and they're gonna fit you with an orange jumpsuit and have at it. Yeah. But good for you, man. You made it. Yeah, yeah, you got over today. I'm glad you won,

Rep. Frances Jackson: I find somebody that is drifting or stealing and I'm like good for you eventually house always wins and they're gonna find you and they're gonna fit you with an orange jumpsuit and have a good for you man. You got them over today I'm glad you won.

Peter Pappas: you know. That's just it's gonna be a lot of things you're gonna see between now and the end of the year because you know, folk are leaving who we didn't ever think we'll be leaving the Joe's. okay, not running again.

Rep. Frances Jackson: It's gonna be a lot of things you're gonna see between now and the end of the year because you know, both are leaving. Everything will be leaving the general assembly area. Not running on getting wind. know, it's work there. yeah. Well, so everything that he ever wanted is gonna have to get pushed through now. Well, you see, people don't understand that too. See, he pissed off enough people in his own home district where they voted him out. But it's short-sighted, whether you like them or not, it's short-sighted because seniority matters.

Peter Pappas: yeah. So he everything that he ever wanted is gonna have to get pushed through the Well and see people don't understand that too. See, he pissed off enough people in his own home district where they voted him out. But it's short sighted, whether you liked him or not, it's short sighted because seniority matters.

Rep. Frances Jackson: And unfortunately, as much as we don't like y'all sitting there for 20 years or 10 years or whatever. I will not be sitting there 10 years. I was telling you. heard it here first,

Peter Pappas: And unfortunately, as much as we don't like y'all sitting there for twenty years or ten years or whatever I would not be sitting there ten years telling you. You heard it here first, people. you know, but whatever it is, you know, as much as we say we want term limits, we want this, we want that, seniority matters. And the higher up the trough you get, to get to the better committee appointments and things like that. So they wanted Berger out and they got him out, but now they have a freshman

Rep. Frances Jackson: But whatever it is, as much as we say we want term limits, want this, we want that, seniority matters. And the higher up the trough we get, to get to the better committee appointments and things like that. So they wanted Burger Out and they got him out, but now they have a freshman.

Peter Pappas: senator.

Rep. Frances Jackson: Yes. mean, I'm not expecting you to agree with this. No, no, no, no. I think people are short sighted because they're on the F somebody trend. he's not going to get anything accomplished. It's like one of the young men on the House side, he won against a guy who was a Democrat, but he always voted with Republicans. And this whole year, I think he might have gotten one bill for it. But

Peter Pappas: Yes. And I mean I I'm not expecting you to agree or disagree. It's just, you know people I think are short sighted because they're on the F somebody train. Yeah. And and he's not gonna get anything accomplished. It's like one of the young men in my on on the house side, he he won against a guy who was a Democrat, but he always voted with Republicans. Mm-hmm. And this whole year I think he might have gotten one bill through, but

Rep. Frances Jackson: if you need to have that one kid yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah see who the protein, who gets it. right there, Representative Jackson, that is right there, the majority of people in our communities that they're not engaged, don't know what they don't know, we're all happy just to vote for the opposite or vote contrary.

Peter Pappas: It can be you can have that one, kid. Yeah, yeah, you can have that one button. So it's well it's gonna be interesting to see who the protel. But right there, Representative Jackson, that is right there, the majority of people in our communities that they're not engaged, they don't and they don't know what they don't know, and they're all happy, you know, just to vote for the opposite or vote contrary.

Rep. Frances Jackson: But they don't know that losing the similarity and losing that is good. It is bad because one of the things I can say, you know, can say what you want about, know, Brother wasn't a fan of T for teacher, but one of my friends at the one of the rep individuals at the HBCU said he would always say, hey, we got to give them this X number of dollars. So and even if they didn't want to give it, he told them you're voting for this.

Peter Pappas: But they don't know what that means. Losing the seniority and losing that is is big. It is big because one of the things I can s you know, you can say what you want about, you know, Berger wasn't the a fan of teet for teachers, mm, but one of my friends at the one of the rep the individuals at the HBCU said he would always say, Hey, we gotta give this X number of dollars. So and even if they didn't want to give it, he told you voted for this.

Rep. Frances Jackson: You don't have that authority over there now. And some of them are concerned. So we'll see. Let's just be hopeful that we'll leave it up to God. We'll say, you somebody else is to come along and have good intentions and take that seat. So, all right. Well, nobody's running against you this year. So if you could ask yourself the one question an opponent would have asked you in a debate, what do you think it is?

Peter Pappas: You don't have that authority over that name. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And some of them are concerned. Well we'll see. Let's just be hopeful that we'll leave it leave it up to God. We'll say, you know, somebody else's gonna come along and have good intentions and take that seat. So All right. Well nobody's running against you this year. So if you could ask yourself the one question an opponent would have asked you in a debate, what do you think it is?

Rep. Frances Jackson: What are future plans for maybe? Future plans for the seat? Well, you know, I'm still interested in making sure that teachers, educators get what they deserve, especially the batteries.

Peter Pappas: What about future plans? Yeah, what are your future plans? All right, what's your answer? Future plans for the seat. Well, you know, I'm still interested in making sure that teachers, educators get what they deserve, especially the veterans.

Rep. Frances Jackson: So if there's a change in our house, I would like to know that the next person is someone I can work with. We came very close this year. The 8 % was great for a new beginning teacher, but the veteran teachers and teachers, even myself, we didn't really see

Peter Pappas: So if there's a change in our house, I would like to know that the next person is someone I can work with. We came very close this year. The eight percent was great for a new beginning teacher, but the veteran teachers and teachers, even myself, we you didn't really see Yeah. The increase. And I really concerns me that I hear the eight the eight percent raise when it wasn't across the board.

Rep. Frances Jackson: the increase. And that really concerns me that I hear the 8 % raise when it wasn't across the board. So the next time. really not a fan of how the school budget got done, or the budget got done in general. No, it was. was, again, another way to make people think they really got something they didn't. fought for the freshman teachers. Yes. And I'm glad that we could start them at 17 % higher. But then you think about...

Peter Pappas: So I'm really not a fan of how the school budget got done or the budget got done in general. That's such a BS. It was it's it was it's that it again, another way to make people think they really got It was hard fought for the freshman teachers. Yes. And I'm glad that we can start them at seventeen percent higher. But then you think about

Rep. Frances Jackson: the girl that's been there five years or 10 years teaching and helping because school will teach them everything they need to know coming in. That's in the industry. It's not just You don't know if you don't know if you walk into a classroom and the who spits at you and say, right. Exactly. And one of the things that, and I've said that, you know, I was beginning to teach her a few years ago. Sometimes they feel for goodness, but who knows. But a young lady, Mindy Howard, she's a good friend. She was my team lead and

Peter Pappas: the girl that's been there five years or ten years teaching and helping because school don't teach them everything they need to know coming in any and that's in the industry. It's not just you know you don't know what you don't know until you walk into a classroom and Lil Johnny spits at you and it's like all right, I can't one of the things that and I've said that, you know, I'm a I was a beginner teacher a few years ago. Sometimes they still can't say me at the beginning teacher who knows. But a young lady, Mindy Harold is, you know, she's a good friend. She was my team lead. And she taught me a lot of what

Rep. Frances Jackson: she taught me a lot of what

Peter Pappas: I know and she's been there over twenty five years. And I'm gonna say she may have said some of the people who've been there for that long say their their raise was like twenty dollars. Yeah. A hundred dollars. It and that's not eight percent raise they get they received twenty to a hundred dollars. That's not fair. Isn't there a song about we hurt the ones we

Rep. Frances Jackson: I she's been there over 25 years and I'm gonna say she may have said some of the people who've been there for that long Say they're there raised was like $20. Yeah $100 and that's not a percent raise they get they received 20 to a hundred dollars. That's not fair

Peter Pappas: love? I mean there's gotta be someplace. I you know, we need teachers, we need good teachers and first responders, firemen, police, and we always treat them as a political football and they always come away.

Rep. Frances Jackson: Yes, yes, you know we need teachers we need the teachers the first responders fine the police and always drinking as a well And they always come away continually be there right continue their job no matter how many times we come I don't I just if the city the thing of the police department can figure out compression figure out how to

Peter Pappas: continuing to do their job. No matter how many times we cut And I don't I just if the city the Fayetteville Police Department can figure out compression and figure out how to

Rep. Frances Jackson: pay more at the bottom and then eventually have that triple up so that, you know, a senior officer is getting a senior officer's pay and not close to the entry-level guy. Certainly we have smaller people to stay to figure this out. Well, see, this is the thing. Their

Peter Pappas: pay more at the bottom and then eventually have that trickle up so that, you know, a senior officer is getting a senior officer's pay and not close to the entry level guy. Yes. Certainly we have smart enough people at the state we do to figure this out. Well see the this is the thing. The they have they're Their focus is on private schools. And I

Rep. Frances Jackson: focus is on private schools. I don't knock private schools, I don't knock people having a choice when it's in their children. But you need to be fair. We need the same, we certified, we have to comply with a lot of regulations that the feds give us. We have to go to school longer. Give us the same fair money that you're giving up. not vouchers. Yeah, vouchers. All right, Representative, we're gonna spar them out. so was a big,

Peter Pappas: don't, you know, not private schools. I don't knock people having a choice where to send their children. Well, you need to be fair. We need the same we certified. We have to comply with a lot of regulations that the feds give us. We have to go to school longer. Give us the same fair money that that you giving up. All right, representative. Well, we're gonna spar on that one. Okay, so here's the deal. North Carolina's a big state. I think we can afford to do both

Rep. Frances Jackson: North Carolina's a big state. I think we can afford to do that.

Peter Pappas: and do it both proper. Do both. So I w I also so in Cumberland County we have sixteen people running for three at large seats on our school board, which is ridiculous. It is who do I need to talk to? The legislature to try to get a primary for this race and make them register like when everybody else does. Because the people, in my opinion, are not being served by a field of sixteen people.

Rep. Frances Jackson: Yeah, both. Yeah. I also, so in Cumberland County we have 16 people running for three at-large seats on our school board, which is ridiculous. It is. Who do I need to talk to the legislature to try to get a primary things raised and make them register like when everybody else does? Because the people, in my opinion, not being served by a field of 16 people. Whether you look at partisan lines, it's three Republican, three unaffiliated and 10 Democrat. It doesn't matter. But there's gotta be a primary. There's gotta be something to thin the earth. my Well, that's something we can look at maybe, but just know that 16 candidates, that's a strategy.

Peter Pappas: Whether you look at partisan lines, it's three Republican, three unaffiliated and ten Democrat. I it doesn't matter. Okay. But there's gotta be a primary. There's gotta be something to thin the herd. my god. Something we can look at it maybe, but just know that sixteen candidates, that's a strategy.

Rep. Frances Jackson: Some people will put you in the race to pull from others. That's a strategy. And some of them may have won in the race. OK, well who's pulling that string? Because it's going to damage our schools.

Peter Pappas: Some people were put in the race to pull from others. That's a strategy. And some of them may have won in the race. Okay, well who's pulling that string? 'Cause it's gonna damage our schools. Well

Rep. Frances Jackson: look, so good on you for strategy, House of Cards. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a stra- unfortunately, and I've seen it since I've been running. you're to enjoy it, though? it is. It's a strategy that someone has put that many people. And you know, unfortunately, unfortunately, people do have a desire to help and give and help the community.

Peter Pappas: The so good good on you for strategy house of cards. Yeah, yeah. It's a stra unfortunately and I've seen it since I believe that you really truly believe that's a strategy. Yes, it's a strategy that someone is put that many people and you know it and unfortunately unfortunately people do have a desire to help and give and help the community

Rep. Frances Jackson: and help the schools. So they know that they only have to do is whisper in one or two people's ears and say, hey,

Peter Pappas: and help the schools. So they know that they only have to do is whisper in one one or two people's ears and say, Hey Every one of them, I think most of them have some kind of teaching experience except for a few. But then there are those who get paid to put their name on the line. That's pathetic. It is. I've seen it since I've been running for house. I've seen it. And it's unfortunate. You've seen me run and lose twice and but you know, I didn't do it to put my name on

Rep. Frances Jackson: every one of them, think most of them have some kind of teaching experience, except for a few. But then there are those who get paid to put their name on the line. It is. I've seen it since I've been running for house. I've seen it. And it's unfortunate. You've seen me write the news twice and you know, I didn't do it to put my name on

Peter Pappas: there. I did ex But it's I thought I could help my dumbass. I thought, maybe I can help, so that's why I did it. Yeah. Only the ego came in a little later, but

Rep. Frances Jackson: But I thought I could help my dumbass. I maybe I could help so that's why I did it Only the ego came in a little later, but that's why I did it, but really there's people that don't just yeah There are people who just do that. They just put their names out there They're beginning because they don't really want to win They just wouldn't mind picking up the money and the person who puts them in the race I mean come on 16 people that happened to me in whole meals once and the waters down the boat where you don't wave you're gonna win

Peter Pappas: That's why I did it. But really there's people that'll just Yeah, there are people who just do that. They just put their names out there. They they get them 'cause they don't really wanna win. They just wouldn't mind picking up the money and the person who puts them in the race. I mean, come on, sixteen people? That happened to me and Hope Mills once. Okay. And then water's down the vote where you don't wear you gonna win. Well, it's not in okay,

Rep. Frances Jackson: Yeah, and Walters down the boat. But to what end? To what end? Because

Peter Pappas: yeah, water's down the vote, but to what end? To what end? Because

Rep. Frances Jackson: right now, we're so nothing new. We're a tier one community. Our schools are the most impoverished. Okay. Cumberland County gets, I want to say, first or second in line with the number of opportunity scholarships statewide. First. Are we first? And they're in my district. We're winning. All right. They're in my All right. So cool. We want to be number one for something. That's better than murders or homelessness. Well, that's true. It's like Fayetteville, we're going after Greensboro.

Peter Pappas: Right now we're so nothing new. We're a tier one community. Our schools are the most impoverished. Okay. Cumberland County gets I wanna say first or second in line of the number of opportunity scholarships statewide. First. Are we first? We're winning. All right. all right, so cool. We want to be number one for something decent, I guess. It's better than murders or homelessness. That's true. It's like Favel, we wanna we're going after Greensboro for who can have the most murders and whatever. Anyway, so digress. But I I just I know that we have a system big enough to do both the vouchers and the public schools. But but what I was getting at about the 16 we have the tier one status, we have so much going on right now with

Rep. Frances Jackson: I just I know that we have a system big enough to be about yes yes public schools what I was getting out about 16 we have the tier one status we have so much going on right now

Peter Pappas: the capital improvements that are needed, you know, eight hundred million dollars down to five hundred or three hundred now, I think. All these schools are going to be reorganized, which

Rep. Frances Jackson: capital improvements that are needed. $800 million down to $500 or $300 million now I think. All these schools are going to be reorganized, efficiency requires that every so often. These are growing pains. yeah. No matter what, we have declining enrollment of about 1,300, 1,400 kids year after year.

Peter Pappas: Efficiency requires that every so often. So I mean, these are growing pains. Yeah. No matter what, we had declining enrollment, about thirteen, fourteen hundred kids year over year.

Rep. Frances Jackson: Our county commission still gave them 100 % budget, which I'm like, wait a you less kids. But that's just my sandwich maker idea. the money's there. It's the leadership. And if you have 16 people running for school board

Peter Pappas: Our county commission still gave them a hundred percent budget, which I'm like, wait a minute, you got less kids. But that's just my sandwich making idea, you know. But so the money's there. It's the leadership. And if you have sixteen people running for a school board,

Rep. Frances Jackson: and five of them were just there because somebody paid them to be on a ballot, you're doing nothing but hurting the community.

Peter Pappas: And five of are just there because somebody paid to be on a ballot. You're doing nothing but hurting your community. Yeah. I'm not I don't know how many, maybe, you know, and maybe all of have a desire, maybe none of them, but I have seen

Rep. Frances Jackson: I don't know how many, maybe all of them have a desire, maybe none of them, but I have seen. over the years, especially when I ran in Hope Meals. One time there were 60 people in the race, sometimes 12, because I was the only person of color running. And what it does is I'm crazy. Many voted for

Peter Pappas: over the years, especially when I ran in Hope Mills that one time there were sixteen people in the race, sometimes twelve, 'cause I was the only person of color running. And what it does is I'm crazy me, voted for the five.

Rep. Frances Jackson: the four other people other than myself. the rest of them were single shots. I'd never heard that before. And I'm like, I think I must have lost 100 times before I finally won something. think I told about 109 years what I lost by. I I told that many people to vote for 30.

Peter Pappas: other the four other people other than myself shot yourself and the rest of them was single shot. I said, I never heard that before. And I'm like, no. I think I must have lost hundreds of times before I finally won't I think I told about a hundred and ninety, which is what I w lost by. I think I told that many people to vote for all three. Yeah, yeah. I'm guilty of that too. But

Rep. Frances Jackson: there you know I'm just saying that and what I'm hearing from some of the candidates is that yeah I was

Peter Pappas: there you know, I'm just saying that and what I'm hearing from some of the candidates is that yeah, I I was

Rep. Frances Jackson: I was told to get in the way that I might be going in but they know wish they would have better better confidence in their community better aspirations for the community because there's a lot of stuff that's going right with our school system yeah see that's what that's what everybody is all pissed off about what they're not doing

Peter Pappas: I was told to get in the way that that might be going in, but I wish they would have better better confidence in their community and better aspirations for their community because there's a lot of stuff that's going right with our school system. Yeah. See, that's what that's what everybody is all pissed off about what they're not doing

Rep. Frances Jackson: and they get very little credit for things that are going right. We have some shining examples of it. Public school education is not second rate, but when you've got behavior issues,

Peter Pappas: and they get very little credit for things that are going right. We have some shining examples of public school education is not second rate, but when you've got behavior issues. You got kids on buses showing their rear ends. You can't keep school bus drivers. Teachers don't wanna get assaulted. I mean, look, and that's you gotta kick Johnny out at a certain point. Yeah, that's that's one of the things I was gonna say is that

Rep. Frances Jackson: you've got kids on buses showing their hands, you can't keep school bus drivers, teachers don't want to get assaulted. mean, look. That's what I was going to say. a certain point. Yes, that's one of the things I was going to say is that I don't know whenever the vote comes down against this or that. don't, by being in the classroom, I see the need. Because at the end of the day, like you said, most parents just want to know their child's gonna come home safely. And they take them out, but I think that's one thing, like I said, the leadership here now.

Peter Pappas: I don't knock whenever they c you know, then when the when the vote comes down, you know, against this or that. I don't by being in the classroom I see the knee. Right. Because at end of the day, like you said, most parents just want to know their child is gonna come home safely. Mm-hmm. And they take them out. But I think that's one thing I can say the leadership here now,

Rep. Frances Jackson: they you know, they bucking down on behavior. My principal at my school, she put a lot of structure in places I really like

Peter Pappas: they're they're you know, they're buckling down on behavior. My principal at my school, she put a lot of structure in place that I really like. And she support the teachers and

Rep. Frances Jackson: and she support the teachers and

Peter Pappas: we have the policies and requirements that Come Account Schools put in place. She's implementing them. And if you come in there, you fight and you show yourself, you would out the door. Yeah. And that and that is what's important. Plus, I tell my kids too, I told them this yesterday because we were talking about the Hami Robbie code of the first laws of history. Yeah, yeah. And I wanted to show them that kind of

Rep. Frances Jackson: we have the policies and requirements that Cumber County schools put in place, she's implementing them. And if you come in there, you find and you show yourself, you are out the door. And that is what's important. Plus, I checked my kids too. I told them this yesterday, because we were talking about the homo robico, the first laws of history. And I wanted to show them, they kind of... I showed them the phone sale band that we have that we voted for in raw. I say I was proud of we did this. We also have the one where if you hit and hurt a soccer teacher, you out of here. Really? yeah, we implemented that this year either last year. And at the end of the day, parents want to know their child's gonna come home safely. And I can tell you that this new superintendent ain't playing around.

Peter Pappas: I showed him the the the phone sale band that we have that we voted for in Raleigh. I say I was proud that we if we did this. We also have the one where you if you hit a hurt or salt a teacher, you outta here. Really? yeah. Okay. We didn't win it that this year, either last year. And at the end of the day, parents wanna know their child's wanna come home safely. And I can tell you that this new superintendent ain't playing around.

Rep. Frances Jackson: Dr. Bracey, he's a numbers data driven individual.

Peter Pappas: Dr. Bracie, he's a numerous, data driven individual.

Rep. Frances Jackson: So we have to meet often. And I can see our schools, I think we missed being a C school by one point this year. I can see us making the next year. Because that, we cut down on the behavior, that's half the.

Peter Pappas: So we have to meet often and I can see our score was I think we missed being a a C school by one point this year. I could see us making that next year. Okay. Because that that we cut down on the behavior. That's half the

Rep. Frances Jackson: have previous research and it's a little bit some you're here fifty fifty percent something what i think it

Peter Pappas: I think on a previous recent show I did mention that we there was some metric year over year we went from fifty to fifty five percent of passing on reading or something else. So it seems like

Rep. Frances Jackson: was a flu but maybe it not the race being there we've seen some and i hope to see that you can't look we need to graduate here there was one down the school board running his idea was make everybody take a gdc

Peter Pappas: Maybe it was a fluke, but maybe it was Doctor Bracey being there. We've seen some improv and I hope to see that continue. I mean, I look, we need to graduate kids that can read and write. There was one gentleman for school board running, his idea was make everybody take a G E D in senior year. And I'm like, I mean,

Rep. Frances Jackson: It makes layman sense. If they can't pass the equivalency, they graduate and we fail these Well, I

Peter Pappas: it makes layman sense. Well, yeah. I'm like, 'cause if they can't pass the equivalency and they they're graduating and, you know, we failed these kids. Well, well, Matt

Rep. Frances Jackson: think my class in high school was the first class to have to take the competency test before you could get a diploma. And then those who couldn't pass the procedure certificate. I can't imagine what you'd do. be some capstone. Okay, we can solve all the world's problems here in another couple yeah. So I want to thank you for coming.

Peter Pappas: I think my class in high school was the first class to have to take the competency test before you could get a diploma. Okay. And then those who couldn't pass it receive their certificate. So I think that's similar to There should be some capstone. Yeah. You know, but okay, well we can you know, we can solve all the world's problems here in another couple of hours. But so I wanna thank you for coming. You know,

Rep. Frances Jackson: We

Peter Pappas: we always have a kind of conversation that people they keep telling us it doesn't happen, but we end up having it anyway.

Rep. Frances Jackson: always have a kind of conversation with people that keep telling us it doesn't happen. Right. Where

Peter Pappas: where do people reach your office and your campaign? I mean you're not really are you campaigning much? I mean you're probably showing up to the thing. I'm showing up for events because you never know. I I met a young lady this weekend at an event and she wanted to know s how to get in touch with me about a

Rep. Frances Jackson: do people reach your office in your campaign? mean, not really. Are you campaigning much? mean, probably. Well, I'm showing up for events because you never know. I met a lady this weekend at an event and she wanted to know how to get in touch with me about. agency, state agency that you need help from. So I help you right there.

Peter Pappas: agency, a state agency that you needed help from. So I helped her right there. So

Rep. Frances Jackson: So, you know, although I may not have opposition, I think it's still important that people know and see me out there in the community and know that. to us to find you at your office or your campaign stuff? no. Tell us where to. OK, call me at, I mean, come with me. I'm coming. The state. Yeah, I'm in state. State House. I think my phone number is 919-733-9298.

Peter Pappas: You know, although I mean I have opposition, I think it's it's still important that the people know and see me out there in the community and know. So you wanna tell us to find you at your office or your campaign stuff? How you wanna tell tell us where to where to go? Okay, call me at I mean come come and count. the You're on the state, man. Yes, I'm in the state. State House, I think my phone number is nine one nine seven three three nine two nine eight. Okay. And

Rep. Frances Jackson: I need to get my legislative assistant is there because you know I'm in the classroom and

Peter Pappas: you get my legislative assistant is there 'cause you know I'm in the classroom. Okay. And at the end of the day when I leave campus, she'll call me and say this is what you need to you know pay attention to or this person called you and I call it back. So Okay. Yeah. so nine one nine I'm sorry, nine one nine is the nine. I'll verify before I I'll put it in the note. So I'll verify. Don't worry, you don't have think. So come on folks, go look it up yourself. You know, come on, the the whole point here is go Google. So well, Representative Jackson, the door is always open and I hope you come back after the s

Rep. Frances Jackson: at the end of the day my leave campus your comments say this is what you need to pay attention to or this person call you're not calling back so all right so now I'm one nine nine one nine is I'll verify yeah so come on folks don't look it up yourself the whole point here is gonna be well representative Jackson the door is always open and I hope you come back after this short session.

Peter Pappas: short session and Tell us what you got going on. Okay, I would be happy to about I'm working on some things right now and I'm looking forward to I'm working across the aisle, making sure that always, always, always, you know you know, I always want you make me want to do the Fred Sanford. I'm coming to get Well, there are some concerns in the community that I like to address and I'm working on it already and okay.

Rep. Frances Jackson: Okay, I would be happy to. I'm working on some things right now and looking forward to working across the aisle, making sure that always, always, always, you you know, I always want to do the front. Well, that's the concerns in the community that I like to address and I'm working on it already.

Peter Pappas: The school board brought us with concerns and

Rep. Frances Jackson: school board brought us to concerns and

Peter Pappas: As a constituency who brought some concerns to me that I want to work on and hopefully bring resolved to Okay. Well, we'll be here. Okay. Thank you for having me. Nice seeing you. Thank you for being here this afternoon. Absolutely.

Rep. Frances Jackson: add some constituents to the Bronx concerns from that I want to work on and hopefully bring this off today. Well, we'll be here. Okay. Thank you for It's nice seeing you. Thank you for being here. Absolutely.