Judge Toni King on Human Trafficking Court, Spotting the Signs, and Keeping Courts Open

Peter Pappas: Drop the noise level a little bit. A little bit. A little bit. hell yeah, it's like night and day. Hello. Okay. Welcome back to the Carolina Cabinet. I'm your host, Peter Pappas, in studio with the lovely Laura Mussler. Hello, hello. And joining us, our friend Judge Tony King. Hello, good evening. Welcome, welcome. It's so good to have you. we go a little ways back. We do. We both were forty under forty young professionals. Yeah, they're not girlfriend. I don't know. Do we want to say what year that was? 'Cause I I forget. Yeah, I kinda I I kinda felt well, it looked like I think I took a picture w I was in a black tie and took a picture with girlfriend at the time and it looked like we're going to prom. I mean, it just looked like baby face. When I find that picture I'm like I had no beard. No, it's her when I picked her up. Yeah. Yeah. was kind of a big deal. You know, yeah. And they're still doing the forty under forty, are they not? Yeah. I didn't I kinda fell I I was I found myself too busy sometimes. They seemed to make it to like want to make it some kind of a regular networking thing or whatever and I just didn't have time. I did not know what I was getting into. So I kind of fell out. But I guess did you continue going to events and stuff like that? Have you? Okay. Yeah. made it every year but I have gone to some of and they're really nice and it's it's grown into even a better ceremony. So they've done a great job with it. Is the newspaper still doing it or is it moved? I think it's moved. I was actually on the voting board this year and the newspaper supports it, but I think they kinda outsourced it. Okay. Okay. well tell us about yourself. Are you faiable born and bred? No, I'm actually a military brat. As I say lovingly, my dad served in the military for thirty years. So I lived overseas most of my life. came back to Fort Bragg when I was starting middle school. That was my first introduction to Fayetteville in Fort Bragg. So I went to Reed Ross when it was a middle school. Okay. And then w left back and then came back after I went to college at Central and went to law school there and then came back to And you returned. I did. I love it. I love it. Not many people do that. I wish more people would. Yeah, 'cause Fayetteville's a great city. Yeah, when they're not bashing us on Facebook. That's because everybody, you know Well they should know us now, especially. Well, we're gonna be hey, we got some big things coming up. We got the medical school, we've got whatever we're gonna do with the ground. We have we have a lot of good stuff going on here and people just don't wanna give us our credit. That's true at all. My goodness. So favorite spot in Fable that you like to unwind? there's so many. I'm a foodie, so I like to go eat, so you'll find me probably at a lot of different restaurants. Okay. Last favorite or last one maybe. Not the name drop. I tried biscuit belly. Feels really good. Biscuit. Biscuit belly. It's a new biscuit spot over by the old navy area. Glensford. Yes. that new little billy biscuit belly. Okay, okay. And they have an Asian restaurant there. Yeah, it's got over. Excellent. I like it. I'll join you for a biscuit one day. So what was your first job ever? My first job ever. I worked well, I was a new patient deliverer. I delivered the stars and stripes in Germany when I was in high school. Okay. Yeah, it was dreadful. How long were you in Germany? We were in Germany for about four years. Okay. Okay. My mom's gonna want to talk to you. She's German. So she's gonna wanna hear all about it. I love it. yes, absolutely. and that's what, you know, I've said it before, that's what made the Army brats my favorite friends, because you all had been someplace. You know, I had the the fortunate luxury of my dad was from another place and I'd been to this place and I know how poor that place was. And coming back to the good old USA, I'm like, Hell yeah, we got running water and air conditioned. We're happy with that. But it definitely gave you a different perspective and just made you I I feel like that the Army brats were more resilient. Definitely because you are moving around quite a bit. You're having to find yourself in different cultures. You meet different people maybe every two to three years. You have to make new friends. So it definitely teaches you a lot. It does. Well it always showed. So didn't grow up here, went to college, did return. Love that. So why are you still doing what you're doing? Because you've you've been a judge now for how many years? Seventeen years. Seventeen years. It flies. It really does. So what what keeps you going? I enjoy my job. I mean it's not a job that I really enjoy it. I know it sounds cliche, but I really love what I do. and mostly because I feel like I can help people. So in different pathways in different areas. So that's probably the best thing that keeps me going. How did you know I was gonna ask you about some of this stuff? So look, you know, I know that you are active outside of the bench. I know you do your job and we do not want a a grumpy curmudgeon on the bench. We want you to be equitable and not take stuff out on people, which is great. but what else how have you utilized your seat? I know there's some human tra I know you've done a lot of work with other things. So tell us about outside organizations and stuff that you've been able to get into. Well, I've been a member of the Junior League of Fayetteville, so I worked in the Junior League for over ten years there. I am a member of Alpha Cap to Alpha Sorority Incorporated. We have a graduate chapter on Cap O Make. I do a lot of outreach with them. And I also am a part of the Lynx Incorporated. So I do a lot there. And then just as Tony, I go out and do something. So for those that don't know, the junior league are the ladies that put on the Holiday Fair Holiday Fair. That's like the big event. And the sorority, is that which colour uniforms they have. Are they the pink and greens? Okay. Okay. Pink and greens. Well it was like either the is it purple and gold? I think that's that's the males. No, that's the guys. Okay. So what's the other female? We have a about those other you have deltas that wear the red crimson and cream. Okay. All right. Yeah. I knew it all, you know. Gotta represent your set. And I you know I I wanna be the pink and green. I don't like red. So tell us more about the Because unless you were a red and green person, then I would be like, yeah. I've seen you at events for the human trafficking stuff like that. Tell us how severe of a problem we have here in Cumberland County. it's pretty severe. a lot of times we don't want to hear that because it's our home. But it's because we are right here close to I ninety five. We have a transient community. That's what I tell everybody. It's not because we're a bat community, it's just that we've got a lot going on. so typically we find ourselves as Fayetteville either ranking number one or number two, as the city with the the worst human trafficking. This is not a metric we want to be number one at. And that's on Cedar Creek Road is really, really bad. Is that not right? It's all throughout Fayetteville to be honest with you. 'cause I volunteered the the Phoenix Center. And so I know we get a lot of phone calls up. And that's and that's gonna be a lot because of the fact that it's more remote, more rural. kind of area so you you're off the grid a little bit. Plus the hotels out there, I think. And that's the halfway point between Florida and New York. Mm-hmm. You're off the grid. It's easy to jump off a ninety five and be right there. So that's one of the reasons that contributes to it. So how do you help the most with that? I mean you're you're a sitting judge and I know you lia liaison with a lot of these organizations. how do you what's the best way you give help to these To this group of folks that are in trouble? Well, when they're referred to our court, the first thing that we try to do is what we call a comprehensive clinical assessment through our licensed therapist. Okay. And we try to set them a treatment plan. obviously they've been charged with something. And so from there talking about the trafficked person. Yes. Okay. Typically they find themselves in dual roles. Either they're they are the victim and a defendant in a case. And so we try to approach it from a holistic approach in terms of getting them mental health treatment, making sure they have basic necessities like you know, home, safe home, clothing, water, food, those basic necessities. and then from there we just try to work backwards. Now you mentioned in your court, so you have these are county employees we're dealing with, or is this how you interface and get these nonprofits to come in and help? Well we have nonprofits that come in and help, but I also have a hired individuals that are part of the court system. Okay. Okay. Isn't it a shame that these women or men or teenagers or whatever, they end up being defendants and charged with crimes when they're being forced to do what they're doing. And that's the reason why we have our human trafficking court, because we identified that that this is going on. And so it's a way to help them either overcome the charges or either have lesser offenses. and so we work hand in hand with the district attorney's office. That's a noble call. So if they decide to go through treatment, then you maybe would defer or lessen the severity. Is that how that works? It does work that way. We have a district attorney that is assigned to our court. And so they will work with the defender, the either either a private attorney or public defender. Sure. Work with them in either getting their charges dismissed if they've gone through our courts or lessen lessening the charges. And from my perception, it was almost as if you had to charge them with something to kind of get them to come to Jesus moment. Well, sometimes you don't know that they are a trafficking victim. So what happens is they they get picked up because they've been charged with a crime. But then after doing a deep dive and finding out the circumstances is when it's revealed that either they were trafficked or they were in that lifestyle to be trafficked. Okay. And this isn't relegated to women being trafficked, is it? We have males as well. Are we talking about male children? Or are we talking about just grown men? children and adults. So I have two different courts, in human trafficking court. I have a juvenile court as well as an adult court. and so I have young men that are trafficked, you have grown men that are trafficked, young women as well as grown women. Are these folks if you had a hundred folks in your court, would ninety of them be from Fayetteville or are they is it like ninety of them from just wherever? I'd probably say Maybe eighty percent are from Fayetteville, but we do have quite a few that were brought from s other places and found that Fayetteville was where they were left. What's what's a number one sign that we can if we're in the community we're like I went to International Folk Festival, you know. I think people have a perception that someone's being trafficked, they're locked in a room. Right. But What something I could see in public that would like indicate that somebody's being in trafficked. I mean, is there anything to look for? There's quite a few different signs. and obviously they're not a hundred percent foolproof, but you may see individuals that are much older in age with one another. A younger person with a with a much older person. That person's kind of controlling in terms of you'll see that that person's probably not gonna look you in the eyes, probably not gonna speak to you when you ask questions. They're always gonna look to that other person for that approval. Okay. You'll see people in the hotels if they come in, they have no bags, nothing. that's kind of the indicator how many people stay in a room or a hotel for several days and they have no bags for night. is there is there a way that the hotel owners or the hotel people can is there some kind of hotline or something like that to try and I mean 'cause I know they're in for the money, so how do we in incentivize the hotel owners? Well, our legislature did pass a law where now hotel industry they have to go through training. And so as a court, we have gotten grant funding and so we've trained key hotel officials here, we've trained the airport officials, we've taken them to national conferences. And so to give them that idea of what to look for and just to kind of be on alert. Obviously you're not gonna get it 100%. but those are just some key things when they show up with no items that you can stay in a hotel room for a couple of days. That's hot. and like I said, the controlling aspect. Sometimes you'll see physical signs of abuse. so those things are all kind of hand in hand of what you can look for. It's just scary, man. You know, I so I was with the girls in a grocery store and they were not paying attention to their surroundings and I'm like, Yeah, and I felt like I I didn't mean to scare them. But I was like, you don't know where you're at. You need in it. It's not it's not Fayetteville. It's just like the they're paying not paying attention to their surroundings. No, and I'm like, you girls will know where you're at. You need to pay attention and you get right you know. So Are you kidding me? You that's nothing. I locked my kids in the trunk of the car and taught to get out. I'm like, I'm not letting you out. Figure it out. Okay. Creep you always gotta out creep me or something, like what But you know what? And and yet if my kids were in the front car the in a vehicle and somebody's driving you away and you grab a hold of that wheel and crash. Why? Because somebody's gonna come help you then. If you once they get you away, you're away. Then I I taught my kids all of that stuff. I taught them how to break out a backlight. I taught them how to try to get the seat down or whatever. The best thing is out the back to get to flag somebody down. I I'm just dating their mom for like seven months. I'm not trying to scare the kit out of these girls yet, but I'm I'm just saying that You should scare the hell out of them a hundred percent. I agree with you. teaching kids to do the opposite of whatever that person is. They tell you to be quiet, that's the last thing you wanna do. You know, if they tell you if you don't be quiet and kill you right there, well, if you get away to a place that they want to take you, they're probably gonna kill you. Yeah. So make as much noise as you said as you can. A hundred percent. And don't it was just the one talk. You have to say something that's say real words. You I don't know you. You have to yell out words. Leave me alone. And you gotta be mindful of I just saw something on social media the other day when I was like a man that was very powerful. They had a mom that let her daughter go in the bathroom. I saw that. It was an older young lady, she was probably like twelve. So you think, Well, she's twelve, she'll be fine. She goes in and there's a man in the stall and he grabs her and puts her in one of those thirty two inch suitcases and zips it up and rolls her right out of the bathroom. It was a it was a a scenario that they had set up. So the mom went in looking for and the man comes back with the suitcase and says, I could have taken your daughter. And you know, it just kinda makes you feel don't just send your kids in the bathroom because you never know who's in there. There's Yep, that I that I saw that exact exactly. And I like, Holy smokes, I never e I would have never thought of that. Me either. Yeah. Because my kids I used to be like, Okay, I'll be right here outside. And you're thinking they're old enough to make noise, but if something like that happens, you never know. All right, I'm not gonna sleep tonight at all. Thinking about that. God. All right. So I have more to do with the girls. hundred percent. Yeah, okay. All right. And you know what's what what's funny is you could do something like that. Set it up where they like almost get kidnapped, but not really kidnapped. Like a friend comes and kidnaps them, kidnaps them. And it see it sounds very teetering on illegal. It's not teetering on illegal either. you're teaching your children how to be safe. Right. Yeah. And sometimes the mother or In all seriousness, I get it, and I will work and I will protect those girls and yeah, I'm not I'm not worried about that. But But teach them how to also protect themselves. My my parents had boys, so that's our perspective on stuff. So give me a break. I'm always the one watching because my friends drink or whatever. I'm like I just thought you wanted to assert being better than everybody. No, it has nothing to do with that. It has to be with somebody has to be in control. Okay. Fair enough. Why never get drink to get drunk drunk. I just drink to Women do though. Well if they have to deal with me. Yeah, I was gonna say you got better looking. Keep drinking. I sure do. Down the hatch, girl. Okay, so so we got your extracurriculars down. Sororities and volunteer and so your role at the junior league, what what have you been able to do with your co with your caseload and everything else? Like well, I'm no longer part of the junior league now, but in the past I've worked on different Minis or holiday care of course, and then was sustainable for many of the token. Yeah, something something's gotta go away. Yeah, unfortunately. Yeah. And you only got so many hours in the day, and I just you know, like I said, it's that whole sleep hangover thing. Like if I am out late, that's it. Three days gotta recover. So what's one thing that you haven't done yet that you still want to do? One thing I haven't done yet, but I still want to. I'm not quite sure in terms of what service in terms of just fun. Can you tell me? Well let's say you want to skydiver or anything like that. That was the first thing that came to mind. Well there you go that that would be something fun, but I don't know that I'd ever get the guts to do it. My luck 'cause I tempt fate and that's the one time I'm you know, that's it. Yeah. But so on the bench, 'cause you've been there seventeen years. definitely you've created a reputation for being unfortunately the human trafficking Judge, in my opinion, that's that you know your stuff inside and out. Like that's your reputation procedure with me. I know you know what the hell you're doing. But what is something else you want to work on if elected if re-elected, you know, unopposed and all? I was gonna say is there a chance. I don't think so. Well, I really want to just do more things for our youth in our community, create more opportunities for them. Just because I think like you said, Fayetteville does not get the recognition that it deserves. So we have a lot of these bigger cities where there are different programs that are ongoing. big businesses kind of tend to invest there. well now I have a friend who works at Microsoft and I saw that they do this program of teaching kids AI, but it's all up in Maryland in that area. And it's like that could be here. Wait, you're saying AI is okay? my lord. I said earlier I was on the FBLA panel today at Fable Tech and that wasn't that's a big thing for these kids in college is you know, AI is gonna eat their jobs. Right. So but using it responsibly was the thing that kind of came out. I'm sorry. No. It's never gonna replace a human, but you've always gotta remember how to make yourself marketable, right? But if you bury your head and say, AI's out there but it's never gonna touch us, then that's when you're gonna be overlooked. Well I've seen those movies and I don't like the way they ended, so I'm a little bit where they end. Usually with like humans winning. Yeah, but to get there it's like Armageddon times whatever. So you know there's a few yes, but never mind. Okay, so you know, what what's something you'd like to talk about? This is very free flowing and you know, this is the scary scary. Yeah, yeah. You know, I think just kind of you know, letting people know that our courts are open. I hear a lot of people when it comes to judges' races, they really don't know the judges. They don't know who we are sometimes unless, like you said, we are out in the community and really doing things, but that doesn't mean that the judges on the bench aren't doing their job. so I think it's important that people come to court. You can pop in at any time, courts are always open. unless there's something sensitive and we've decided hey this has gotta be closed just for this okay issue. But otherwise you don't have to have permission. Just come in, sit down, watch. I have a question. Sure. So I was doing quit watch. Okay. And I have a what do what are our notebooks called? Remarkable. remarkable. It's electronic, but it's you take notes on it or whatever. It doesn't connect to the internet, it doesn't do anything. They're like, Yeah, you can't use that figure. Why why do you not let people use electronic Well, it probably is one of the things where they think that you're recording. because right now with meta and everything, it seems like people are trying to record and then it ends up on the internet and it just becomes it goes viral. so you can come in with a regular note that can take your notes and if you let the judge know that it's doesn't have a recording device or anything like that, because the only people that should be recording in the courts is the clerk, right? Of course. And so if you want to act for an accurate recording, you can request a copy from the clerk. And so that's probably what it was. Typically, judges don't care if you come in with something to write with or anything like that. Right. This must have been the way you look that day. They just No, I I went up and I I did ask it was not her courtroom, but I was like, Hey, I have this, can I write and they said no. I'm like, Well that makes me have to write it and then have to rewrite it and like, Yeah, I don't I don't wanna sit there and read and do choice the work. I'm just not gonna do courtwork. Well, don't do that. That's good that you come. Okay. That is really good that you come. I know but it takes twice as long. When I can write it on my record on my my remarkable, which does not record, and then just download it and send it, it's like I don't want to do the work twice. I don't and it might have been just been not understanding what that device was. But they're fairly new. I mean that's but let me ask you this. So you you know, you would invite people to come sit and core, but why can't I record? It's supposed to be public. I I mean it's designated that the clerk is the one who is the keeper of the record and she is the only one. that should be recorded. But the the any citizen can always request a copy of it. And then you have district court where it's not recorded. District Court criminal is that's the fundamental thing of that is that it should not be recorded because then that person has the right to appeal to superior court. And so they they're supposed to get us clean slate. Okay. All right. Well I mean unless she went into a closed session, like you said earlier, you know, I don't see why they shouldn't be able to, but if that's Just the way the the way cookie crumbles, I guess. Okay. So That's it. I got nothing. I mean, I you know, I look this is a very good luck in your ring. I I predict that you're gonna win. Well I I I'm gonna take that. Yes. So Well, you know, I appreciate it. I I just hope that my the fact that I don't have opposition is just a key factor that I'm doing my job and that people feel like I'm being fair. across the board and so I just I don't take that lightly. I do appreciate it because anybody that's running can run against any ten of us at any given time. in the fact that they've not chosen to run against me. That's the way I like to look at it and I hope that that's the truth. Yeah I like I wouldn't do my whole advertisement if you feel strongly give money, give them but it she isn't up to okay well Well they can always contribute to my campaign there's still a campaign. So I always say that campaigns do not run themselves. That's right. They need volunteers and they need money. So if you like Judge King, then feel free to find her where? At the Crum Lake County Courthouse, one seventeen fixth street. I'm in suite two eleven. and then I have, you know, my campaign treasurer, Miss Vira Bell. She'll be glad to talk to you. It is Judgetoni King dot com. Okay. Donate. volunteer whatever. Every campaign needs to be Yeah, quit put bitching on Facebook. Get involved. That's exactly right. Yeah. I mean good work. People know what we're doing. Okay. Well Judge King, it's always a pleasure seeing you. And a pleasure having you. And once you win this contested election, come on sometime. Absolutely. Just drop in and Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate it. Thank you. Well y'all have a good evening. Thank you.