Judge George Bell on Law, Experience, and the NC Court of Appeals

Peter Pappas: Well, welcome to the Carolina Cabinet. I'm Peter Pappas. Joining me is Judge George Cooper Bell, a sitting superior court judge in Mecklenburg County and the Republican candidate for the North Carolina Court of Appeals, seat number two. Before he went on the bench, Judge Bell spent about 14 years as a criminal defense attorney. He is a graduate of Cornell and Regent University School of Law, and he now lives in Cornelius with his wife and their children. This is a two candidate race. Judge Bell faces off with incumbent Democratic Judge Toby Hampson. Judge Hampson has already sat down with us on this show. That conversation is up at the Carolinacabinet.com. One more to note the Court of Appeals has 15 judges, only three of them are Democrats. And all three of those seats are on the ballot this year. So with that, Judge Bell, welcome.

Judge George Bell: Thank you for having me, I appreciate it.

Peter Pappas: Should be fun. Should be fun. I I have to disclose for our audience that we we are both of Greek descent. And

Judge George Bell: Yes.

Peter Pappas: you you pointed that out, and I was very happy to hear that. It's always good to have a

Judge George Bell: Yes.

Peter Pappas: member of the of the history on the in high places. So I see. It's so good

Judge George Bell: Alright, Yasu Tikanis!

Peter Pappas: to have you today. So we're gonna start off a little easy stuff. So okay, well I look you wrestled at Cornell. So what weight class were you in?

Judge George Bell: So I was 126 pounds. I'm obviously not 126 pounds anymore, but I wrestled 126 the first two years and then I ended my career at 141 pounds.

Peter Pappas: So have you had to use any of those skills in the courtroom?

Judge George Bell: That is, I have not yet, but one of my colleagues

Peter Pappas: Yeah.

Judge George Bell: actually, Judge Holcomb, I forget exactly where he is. I think he's in the Johnson County area, but he had to tackle somebody that was being very abusive in the courtroom and he jumped out from the bench and you can see a video of him in his robe flying up. So we endearingly refer to him as Batman, but no, I haven't had

Peter Pappas: I like it.

Judge George Bell: to do that yet.

Peter Pappas: Well, you it doesn't sound like you've lived very much then. I guess, you know, there's always something you couldn't cross off that bucket list. So

Judge George Bell: Haha

Peter Pappas: three kids at home. who's the toughest cross examiner at the dinner table?

Judge George Bell: That would be my middle one, that would be Kate. And she

Peter Pappas: Okay.

Judge George Bell: is my oldest daughter and she is 17. So I've been running the statewide race now for about a year and a half. Prior to that, I ran in 2016 in Mecklenburg County for district court. I was unsuccessful, ran again in 2018. But I'll tell you what, having little, little kids was much harder. Now I've got my son is a junior at Liberty University and then my two

Peter Pappas: Mm-hmm.

Judge George Bell: daughters are a senior and sophomore in high school respectively. and at least one of them can drive. So it's been a lot easier, even though I have three kids at home, one's in

Peter Pappas: Mm-hmm.

Judge George Bell: college, and then I have two older girls. So it's been a lot easier this time around.

Peter Pappas: At the very least you have three individual precincts covered with those kids. So that that's that's one way.

Judge George Bell: Exactly, exactly.

Peter Pappas: you know, the family business for me was the restaurant. For you is gonna be the precincts. So good

Judge George Bell: Yeah.

Peter Pappas: good on you, good on you. So are we a Panthers or a Hornets fan?

Judge George Bell: I'm a big Panthers fan and I was happy to see them take out the Philadelphia Eagles this Sunday. So that was a great win for the Carolina Panthers. I don't watch as much basketball, but I will tell you, if you go in person, like,

Peter Pappas: Mm-hmm.

Judge George Bell: it's just amazing how tall and big these humans are. They're like seven foot six. They look like super, super troopers,

Peter Pappas: Yeah.

Judge George Bell: super humans. it's always a treat when I get to actually go to a physical Charlotte Hornets game, but I'll be honest, I don't watch a ton on television.

Peter Pappas: Yeah, I we went to the or I had the gentleman on that owns the Fayville Liberty basketball team and I went to their press day. And now I'm not that tall, so most everybody is sh taller than me, but these guys, like you said, seven foot, something like that. I'm like, good lord. so one more and then we're gonna move on. So what would be your favorite all time courtroom movie if there is such a thing?

Judge George Bell: that's easy. For me, it's My Cousin Vinny. It's just like the perfect mix of humor. It's a great story. You know, it's, I love the movies where somebody is like kind of, you know, they're stuck in some sort of environment and you have all the cliches of a New Yorker coming to a Southern courtroom and

Peter Pappas: Yeah.

Judge George Bell: it's just a clash of cultures and it just makes for really, really good comedy. Like it's a laugh out loud movie for me. Yeah.

Peter Pappas: Okay, okay. let's see. So fourteen years dep defending people charged with crimes, then you put on the robe. What changed about the way you look at a courtroom?

Judge George Bell: think as a criminal defense lawyer, I was always looking for an angle. I'm always trying to figure out a way in order to make the state prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt. So casting doubt in the mind of a jury was sort what I would try to do. Or casting doubt in the mind of in a district court case for the judge was really what I was trying to do is try to always find that angle. obviously as a courtroom judge, a trial court judge in Superior Court, Superior Court is the highest trial court in North Carolina. And my main thing is like, I'm not deciding innocence and guilt. I'm just kind of like to use the football analogy. I'm sort of the referee of the game and the game would

Peter Pappas: Mm-hmm.

Judge George Bell: be the trial and I'm the referee of the evidence. So I'm having to call balls and strikes, determine what

Peter Pappas: Mm-hmm.

Judge George Bell: evidence comes in, what evidence does not come in and make that determination. So I've become much more of a neutral arbitrator versus an intense advocate that's certainly trying to do the best of my ability to make the state prove their case beyond reasonable doubt.

Peter Pappas: Sure. So most people have never seen the Court of Appeals. So in plain English, tell me what does it do and how is it different from the superior court that you're sitting on right now?

Judge George Bell: Sure. So the Court of Appeals, to use the same football analogy, if you watched the World Cup that was in the United States, they're kind of like the VAR guys. So they are reviewing the decisions of the trial court. And that may be the Superior Court, is a Superior Court conducts trials for all felony cases, murder, rape, robbery, crimes against children, habitual felon. But the Court of Appeals also reviews family law cases, which are district court cases, and other cases as well involving juvenile law such as juveniles that commit crimes or termination of parental rights. And what people don't realize is that in North Carolina, the Court of Appeals is kind of like a junior Supreme Court in that all of the cases that are appealed from district court and superior court to the Court of Appeals, only a small fraction actually go to the North Carolina Supreme Court. Most cases end, if appealed, at the North Carolina Court of Appeals, where that court has a couple options. That court can either affirm the lower court's decision below, they can reverse that decision or they can do some sort of hybrid where they agree with a couple issues, disagree with a couple issues and may remand back to the trial court for findings of facts or remand to the trial court for a new trial. So those are some of the

Peter Pappas: Okay.

Judge George Bell: things that a court of appeals judge can do. And the sort of the main challenge for my race is obviously just educating people on what is the court of appeals

Peter Pappas: Mm-hmm.

Judge George Bell: because most people don't really even know what that is. what that is and if they do, they'd be hard pressed to name one member of our 15 member court of appeals.

Peter Pappas: Mm-hmm. True. And I'm guilty of that myself. So that's

Judge George Bell: Yeah.

Peter Pappas: definitely thanks for clearing that up. So so there is a certain change that's gonna happen though. So if elected, have you considered, you know, leaving that trial a bench where you see people every day to an appellate court where mostly you just become a big nerd and read briefs? Have you

Judge George Bell: haha

Peter Pappas: thought have you have you thought about that transition? Like you you you've got that because I mean in in the court you're in, I mean you pretty much you probably have a docket with how many people or how many cases in one day.

Judge George Bell: Yeah, I mean, Charlotte is the rocket docket. mean, we conduct trials in Charlotte. If it's a civil case we have for that week, it's for civil, can be, you know, like 10 or 12 cases in a day. If it's criminal administrative court, we could have easily 30 cases in a day. So it is very

Peter Pappas: Right.

Judge George Bell: fast paced. So this would be like taking a step back. The good news for a court of appeals is each court of appeals judge is allowed to have a staff of three law clerks, mainly people that have just graduated from law school, and they get to assist the judge with research and writing. So one thing that was very appealing to me was the fact that I actually will have law clerks if elected to the Court of Appeals where we'll get to meet, let's say, every Monday morning on like a virtual call just like this where we get to go through the cases, assign certain cases to different law clerks based on their preference and experience, and then decide how to formulate opinions that will ultimately be interpreting North Carolina law.

Peter Pappas: Mm. So you're gonna be okay with a less of a pace every day?

Judge George Bell: Yeah, I think so. I think a lot of it is, you know, I will be for sure. I mean, when I was a North Carolina criminal defense lawyer, I always wanted to appeal a lot of cases. But the problem is, that like appealing a case from district court to the North Carolina Court of Appeals, it takes a lot of money. So it's thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars. Most of my clients could not afford that. And I dedicated a portion of my practice to indigent defense work when I was a practicing lawyer. And certainly if somebody wasn't facing like first degree murder or like a serious offense where they would automatically get appointed to the appellate defender, those

Peter Pappas: Mm-hmm.

Judge George Bell: people, their case ended in district court. So one thing that I tried to do when I was in practice was I tried to take as many appeals cases as possible. And I actually had the opportunity to submit briefs on a couple cases to the court of appeals. I was successful in one, was not successful in another, but I have always really enjoyed appellate work. You know, the ability to argue to a higher court if I have grievances or how the law should be interpreted differently or whether the trial court got it correct. I think it's always good to have review. of judges because judges need to be held accountable for their decisions and i think the public would agree that there needs to be a a second review because judges are human they don't always get it right and the appellate court you have the opportunity to right that wrong and give litigants the opportunity to to seek justice on behalf of themselves and their and and their and their family members

Peter Pappas: No doubts you can do the job. I think I when I think about you going from the one high, chaotic kind of environment to the Court of Appeals, it's like me not going to the restaurant for a week and being disconnected from everything that's go all the all the action and stuff. You know, I love being in there and, you know, working quickly, but then I get home and I'm like, I wanna go, you know, like I'm okay to go back to the restaurant. I like that pace. But that's just a personal aside. I know you can probably do the job, so I'm not worried about you. So moving on, you told the News and Observer your philosophy is to quote, put victims of crime first and hold violent, repeat offenders accountable. But an appellate judge doesn't really sentence anybody. How does your philosophy show up in an appellate opinion?

Judge George Bell: Yeah, I mean, I think that appellate court judges have the opportunity to review a lot of cases. Like I said earlier, all of the first degree murder cases are going to be automatically appealed. And so think a judge, when just taking a look at a case, I think I would have a more holistic view of that case. And if somebody were, for example, let's just say the superior court judge made a game time decision and maybe it was the wrong decision or it was a decision that was not ideal. I think first of all, as a superior court judge now, and that kind of is what differentiates me a little bit from my opponent. My opponent was a family court lawyer and then he was never a superior court judge. So I think I can empathize with that superior court judge knowing that he or she has to make game time decisions that ultimately shouldn't cause a complete reversal of the trial in the event that that judge made a wrong game time decision if, and I say if, there is overwhelming evidence of that defendant's guilt. So I think a lot of times when things go from district court or superior court to the next level, a judge that may be looking at it from a different lens may say, well, this was the wrong decision. And then I think a judge that would maybe, as you stated, put victims first and criminals last, would have an opportunity to look at the whole picture and say, well, was this defendant afforded his or her constitutional rights? Yes. Did the judge potentially make some sort of error? Yes. But was it, does it constitute reversible error?

Peter Pappas: Mm-hmm.

Judge George Bell: And that's a judge's call. So I would take that philosophy into account when reviewing cases at the Court of Appeals.

Peter Pappas: Okay. So you've said that judges should appl now, okay. Let me disclaimer, I will not be asking you like a Senate confirmation hearing how you would rule on certain things. So

Judge George Bell: Sure.

Peter Pappas: this is this is not that venue, but you've said judges should apply the law as written. And that was a quote. Give me an example from your own courtroom where the law as written gave you a result you didn't like, but you had to follow it anyway.

Judge George Bell: Yeah, that's a good question. Off the top of my head, I can think of a lot of cases where somebody is in front of me and public opinion would say, especially what's happening in Charlotte these days, there's a lot of people that are looking at the judges down in Charlotte and they're saying, these are just catch and release judges. So

Peter Pappas: Mm-hmm.

Judge George Bell: there's a lot of pressure in our community to hold people accountable and not give them a reasonable bond. our statute says that bonds must be reasonable. So I can remember a case that I had probably back in May where somebody was charged with a crime and it's still a pending case. can't give you specifics,

Peter Pappas: No, but yeah.

Judge George Bell: but I got a lot of pushback from my own party based on a decision that I made. But I had to take that case into consideration and I had to look at other cases that were much more serious and I had a duty to give that person a bond which was commensurate with his criminal record. So I had to take a look at his criminal record and the fact that he had no criminal record and I had to in addition take a look at the actual charge to determine if it was if our legislature had said it's a nonviolent crime versus a violent crime and the one that I'm specifically talking about our legislature had the opportunity in arenas law to determine and differentiate between violent crimes and nonviolent crimes. So if our

Peter Pappas: Mm-hmm.

Judge George Bell: legislature is telling us this is a nonviolent crime and it is a situation where somebody has a not a, does not have a criminal record at all, I have a duty to treat the same defendants charged with similar crimes the same under our constitution. And so if public perception is is different than that or has a different understanding than that, then that may not be the ideal situation. And I was, certainly throughout the course of my tenure as a Superior Court Judge have had to make tough calls and had

Peter Pappas: Mm-hmm.

Judge George Bell: to sometimes lower bonds in situations. But I have a duty to follow the law even if the public does not necessarily

Peter Pappas: Mm-hmm.

Judge George Bell: agree with it or they can't understand why I had to do that.

Peter Pappas: So it's no secret that nobody really knows the judicial candidates. It's hard to get to know because judges, you guys are kind of not fun to interview because like you we can't really really dig in and you you're you're bound by ethics, you know, that you you can't talk smack on other judges or whatever or whatever. but what I'm trying to do is to humanize the decision that look, this here is Judge Bell. Here is a a man that has been trained. He has to follow certain things, he might detest it. But he's gonna do what's right under the law presented to him and the constraints. And that's what people my most hated thing is when there's an outcome in a case that locally, you know, there could be a murder, there could be an assault, whatever, and the person is let go. Because, you know, and people say, justice wasn't served. Well, was it? Did he go through the system? Was he given a fair trial? Was he g, you know, so Justice was served. It just wasn't the outcome that you wanted. And that's what to me is different is letting people know that judicial candidates are still human. You're still a member of the community. However, you still have rules you gotta follow. So and that you're and

Judge George Bell: That's correct. Yeah, that's right.

Peter Pappas: not to, you know, what Okay, you know how if you're Republican, automatically you're a MAGA to anybody that doesn't like MAGAs, right? Is y you don't have

Judge George Bell: Ha ha!

Peter Pappas: to be you know what I mean? It's like automat and if you're a Democrat, you're automatically a DSA lunatic, you know. So it

Judge George Bell: Right.

Peter Pappas: it we it we've polarized so much that I'm trying to and that's what I try to do here is let's humanize you a little bit that yes, you've made decisions, but personally you probably thought about it and you tested it, but you still had to do it. And you did it. 'Cause that's what you're there for.

Judge George Bell: That's right. And I think I am a very moderate Republican. mean, even there's an organization out there that doesn't endorsements. They are a pro-life organization, which I have a lot of respect

Peter Pappas: Mm-hmm.

Judge George Bell: for NC values. And they look at your Facebook posts and they go back and they do some really deep digging. So of things, know, and they give you a rating of what they believe that you are. So you could be like off the charts liberal to like very liberal to liberal to kind of in the middle. to conservative, to very conservative, to alt-right conservative, and they have me

Peter Pappas: Mm-hmm.

Judge George Bell: leaning conservative. So I think that goes

Peter Pappas: Okay.

Judge George Bell: to show you that that's a group that has been kind of touted in our state as being a very, very conservative group. if their report back on Judge George Bell is that I lean conservative, then that's sort of middle of the road. So I think that

Peter Pappas: Right.

Judge George Bell: that's a good benchmark. And it's not me up here saying it, it's another group that has looked at my credentials and has made a determination that I'm somewhere in the middle, but I definitely lean conservative because I do believe that we need to protect society. We need

Peter Pappas: Mm-hmm.

Judge George Bell: to stand up for the victims and put victims first and criminals last. I live in Charlotte, there's a lot of crime. We have these student takeovers that are happening all over our state where people are showing up at restaurants or big outdoor shopping

Peter Pappas: Mm-hmm.

Judge George Bell: malls. there's this movement of like lawlessness that's going on. And as a Superior Court Judge, I have not stood for that. I've stood to protect

Peter Pappas: Mm-hmm.

Judge George Bell: the rights of our public. And I would continue to do that in, it's a different capacity from the Appellate Court, but I would continue to ensure that our public is safe.

Peter Pappas: Right. Okay. so I'm gonna close this part out with this question. So judicial races in North Carolina have become partisan with an R or D next to your name. So does that does that help the voters or does it hurt the courts? That's a tough one.

Judge George Bell: Yeah, I think that obviously there's not much that I've done in the last eight years where you could point to one of my decisions and say that's a Republican decision or Democrat decision. So, and I think the same can be said for the appellate courts. I think the Supreme Court might get a little bit of the juicier constitutional issues, things that would

Peter Pappas: Mm-hmm.

Judge George Bell: potentially sway some voters. But generally speaking, Court of Appeals, Superior Court, things of that nature, District Court, you would not be able to tell from my opinions whether I'm a Republican or a Democrat. So I think it's

Peter Pappas: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Judge George Bell: confusing to the public when you have to make sure or when the public is tasked with making a decision based on a candidate, based on their party affiliation, when the job description does not lend itself to

Peter Pappas: Yeah.

Judge George Bell: that partisan type of ideology.

Peter Pappas: Mm-hmm. I agree. And if my co-host were here, she always baits me with this one thing. She says, Hey,

Judge George Bell: Hahaha

Peter Pappas: do you know how do you know how many of my elementary school teachers were Democrat or Republican? And I always try to answer. And she's like, Nobody knew because they didn't talk about it. I'm like, all right, stupid. That's right. Yeah. I'm a little slow sometimes. but she always gets me with that one. But so you don't feel like it's hurt the courts with the partisan races. But what about well, no, you don't how do I put this? I've in my opinion, having partisan races, having races at all for superior and district court and other courts, you don't get the best quality of candidates sometimes at the local level because essentially if they are a good attorney or they're good at what they do and they want to be a judge, if they lose, they're gonna end up practicing in front of the judge they lost to.

Judge George Bell: Right.

Peter Pappas: So to me, I I don't know a good solution, but I feel like that Definitely now that we've become partisan, it's further like it was bad enough as it was, and then now we've made it partisan. So now it may be a little worse and a little more polarized down at this level. But do you do you see anything along those lines? I mean, do you kind of feel that out there in the in the ether?

Judge George Bell: I just don't really know a good solution, honestly, because as I stated earlier, nobody knows who the judges are, especially the court of appeals. If you went to your grocery store right now and you asked the people behind the counter, name one North Carolina Supreme Court justice or one North Carolina court of appeals judge, and you'd probably be striking zero for 10. And so I

Peter Pappas: Right.

Judge George Bell: think by having judges partisan or running as partisan gives the voter some sort of idea on how we interpret the law, how we interpret the Constitution, whether I think most conservatives or Republicans are going to give more deference to words. I know for me personally,

Peter Pappas: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Judge George Bell: I believe that words have meaning and that when the legislature drafts a law that we need to weigh heavily on the legislature's guidance, where I think a lot of times it's been said of a liberal activist judge that they are going to in their mind think, well, this is the result that I want and now I'm going to twist and contort the law in order to do some mental gymnastics to get the result that I want. So I think that that would be the main difference. Generally speaking, these are generalizations. Obviously,

Peter Pappas: Mm-hmm.

Judge George Bell: everybody's different, but that would be a generalization.

Peter Pappas: Right. Well, and Judge Bell, I hadn't thought about it that way, that maybe that helps the voter. At least they kind of get an idea of what side of the fence you're on, I guess. Now, I am gonna have to poke you a little bit. Now, your opponent says he's a textualist too, since you said words had meaning. if you both say you just applied the law as written, then what's the differentiation between you two?

Judge George Bell: Yeah, I think the main thing is that I've actually been a Superior Court Judge for the last eight years. And my

Peter Pappas: Okay.

Judge George Bell: opponent has not, I don't think he's, and I could be wrong, but I don't think he's ever had a jury trial or he certainly has not been a judge presiding over a jury trial. a lot of stuff that court of appeals will see involves a jury. Was a juror properly allowed to stay on a trial? Was a jury member properly dismissed from a trial? A lot of things involving the trial court and Superior Court involving rules of evidence in a jury trial setting, a lot of that is what gets appealed to the North Carolina Court of Appeals. And I think if you just jump from practicing district court all the way to Court of Appeals, My opponent has never had that hands-on experience in conducting a jury trial or defending a defendant in the course of a jury trial, which allows a court of appeals judge to say, I've been there before. I know exactly what the judge was thinking, and

Peter Pappas: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Judge George Bell: I think I can better relate and make and understand, as I said earlier, that certain game time decisions are made from a superior court judge. And I think it helps me empathize with my fellow, with my now colleagues, my now my now superior court judge colleagues to make a better determination on what they were thinking during that trial.

Peter Pappas: Well, experience counts. That's that's across any race, I think that's an important thing. So you're a Charlotte judge running statewide. why should somebody in Fayetteville or Hope Mills care who sits on the Court of Appeals?

Judge George Bell: So the reason that a court of appeals judge would matter to somebody in Hope Mills or Fayetteville is because I'll give one example is family court. Say somebody has a family court case and they don't like the decision that that district court judge gave them and they feel like they should have had custody of their children, but that judge made a decision the other way. Well, that court would be automatically appealed from district court directly to the North Carolina Court of Appeals, where if elected, myself and two other judges would make that decision. On who should have custody of that child or children. And that's a big decision. That's a really big decision. And those cases technically can get appealed to the Supreme Court of North Carolina, but effectively they're not. And so something like that could happen. And and and I would have the ability to make a very life-altering, life-changing decision for that member of Hope Mills or Faithful or somebody here in the local community. And it's important to know who your judges are. And you want judges who have experience like me, who have been in the courtroom, have owned their own business, that have children of their own, and are able to make decisions based on common sense and reason and treat people with respect. And that's one thing. If I've left any legacy as a superior court judge, I remember going into court and getting shut down by lots of older judges that didn't even want to hear me or listen to to my argument. And I made a vow that if I were ever elected. as a as a as a judge that I

Peter Pappas: Mm-hmm.

Judge George Bell: would listen to people. Regardless of what they had to say, I would I would listen to them and give them their day in court. And I've always done that. And if I hear and if I get the chance to serve on the North Carolina Court of Appeals, I will continue

Peter Pappas: I I've heard a lot of people here that they don't trust the courts to treat them fairly. And so you were already kind of saying what you want to do, but what would you say to somebody who just outright s feels that way? That they don't trust.

Judge George Bell: I would probably I'd I'd probably agree with them that there's there's there's sometimes there's not good judges and that's why we have the appeals process. I mean some here's the deal. A lot of times judges make decisions because they want to get re-elected. And that's just that's just human nature of people that want

Peter Pappas: Mm-hmm.

Judge George Bell: to stay in power. And I'm not saying that happens all the time. We have a lot of great men and women that serve in the state, but just like there there can be a bad police officer that shoots the wrong person or that holds somebody down and and takes away their constitutional rights. And that's why it's so important that we get out and vote. And this election right now coming up, I know that for my party, I'm a I'm a registered Republican. We've only had turnout of like 19 or 20% in days one, two, three, and four of of early voting. And if you sit at home and you decide not to vote, well then effectively you are not being part of the process. And then your voice does not matter. But but things like public safety, parental consent, electing judges that are going to stand up for your individual rights and constitutional rights will be on the ballot. And if elected, I vow that I will stand up for your individual rights and uphold the constitution. And so please consider getting out and voting and doing your research. And again, if you forget my name, my name is George Bell, and you can ring the bell for justice.

Peter Pappas: Excellent. So a couple more. if Republicans win all three seats on the ballot, the Court of Appeals will have fifteen Republicans and zero Democrats. Is it a court is a court with no one from the other party good for North Carolina in your opinion?

Judge George Bell: Honestly, I don't think it matters. I mean, I think in order for it to change to let's just say a more as you would call more balanced court, that could take decades. And I think the key is is how t how do we how do we elect people that can reach across party lines, or how can we elect people that can bridge the gap and speak common sense? And I I think that as a you know, I was a I was a wrestler my whole life. I've done a lot of really tough things and I've been through been through hard times emotionally and hard times physically. And I think that I would be able to, even if there was a as you as you stated, a fully unanimous court, I would be able to reach across and and talk to people and hopefully bridge bridge that gap. If there are judges that are making decisions based on what what would be perceived to be partisan, I think that I would be able to to bridge that gap, if you would. And I and I would just point out that Every county across North Carolina, but for the cities, most of the judges in in rural North Carolina are Republican judges. And then if you go to cities like Charlotte, where I'm from, there's 29 judges in Charlotte. There's 27 of the 29 are Democrats. So even at the Court of Appeals, it it's 12 Republican judges and three Democrats. The inverse is true in the city of Charlotte. I believe in like in Guildford and in Wake County. It's it's I would say it's I don't know for sure, but I would assume it's 90% to 100% Democrat judges. So unless you went to a fully nonpartisan system where all judges were were had to run nonpartisan, that's when you would see more of a a division you would see more of an equal distribution of judges. So

Peter Pappas: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Judge George Bell: but the way that it is set up now, you're gonna see much more polarizing numbers throughout our state and your appellate courts, I think statewide. I think in the last seventeen out of eighteen elections, North Carolinians have voted for judges with a Republican affiliation.

Peter Pappas: I think I speak for a lot of people around in my circle at least that I still believe in the United States and the the balance, not just of the checks and balances, legislative, executive, all that stuff, but our political system balances. You know, it's like, we got a Republican, we got a Democrat president, or well, give it four years and we'll have a chance to put

Judge George Bell: Mm-hmm.

Peter Pappas: another, you know. And I think the way I pose that question, you know, what if all 15 are Republicans or all 15 Democrats? I think initially people have this dystopian view, like, it's gonna be like Judge Dredd type of stuff, you know, and it it it's

Judge George Bell: Mm-hmm.

Peter Pappas: but, you know, give it time. And that's the kind of beauty of our country is that well, we overthrow the government every two years and we go to the ballot box. Or we can, you know. So so

Judge George Bell: Exactly. That's a great point.

Peter Pappas: I I still have a little faith in our our this old system of ours. So Last one, then I'm gonna let you go. if someone watching agrees with me on almost everything and thinks you're wrong on almost everything, what's the one thing you'd want them to take out of the last half hour?

Judge George Bell: I just think you can you can read somebody by by watching them, looking at their you know, looking at their eyes and and I think you can tell. I think if I have any if I've left any legacy on the court a as a superior court judge, I think people people have said to me personally that they feel that I'm genuine and that I and then when I speak, they can tell that I'm I'm speaking and that I'm being honest. So I think what you can take from me is that I'm not trying to Throw up any smoke and mirrors. Everything that I've said is is from my heart. And it's things, things that I can speak of because I have the the passion and the belief and the and the con conviction. And you need a judge that you can trust, one that will be honest with the people, because we need to elect fair judges that will be honest, fair and impartial, and not favor any litigant or party that's in front of them. And I and I've left that legacy as a as a superior court judge.

Peter Pappas: Okay, well, Judge, thank you. your career certainly has come a long way to for you to be sitting in this chair today and you answered every question. Not everybody does that. So where do people find you for election type stuff?

Judge George Bell: Yeah, so you can go to my website. It is www.judgeorgebell dot com. If you'd like to read a little bit about my bio and who I am and where I grew up and my experience, you can go to my website.

Peter Pappas: Okay. All right. Well folks, you know, that's what Google's for. So look it up yourself. That's the point. You know, I told you now, go get it. Judge, the door's always open. I would love to hear back from you after the election, win or lose. tell us what you learned out there. And with that, I hope you have a good afternoon and thank you for being here today.

Judge George Bell: All right, thank you so much. I appreciate it.

Peter Pappas: All right, thank you.