District 44's Charles Smith: Returning Home, Running Unopposed, and Making a Difference in Raleigh

Charles Smith: well, welcome to a special session of the Carolina Cabinet. I'm Peter Pappas. Joining me in the studio is Representative Charles Smith, the Democrat who represents District 44 in the North Carolina House, right here in Carmeline County. Charles is a faithful native. He played college basketball at Henry and Henry,

Peter Pappas: Well, welcome to a special session of the Carolina Cabinet. I'm Peter Pappas. Joining me in the studio is Representative Charles Smith, the Democrat who represents District 44 in the North Carolina House, right here in Carmeline County. Charles is a Fayetteville native. He played college basketball at Emory and Henry.

Charles Smith: earned his law degree at UNC Chapel Hill, and came home to prosecute domestic violence and child abuse cases as an assistant district attorney here in Cameron County.

Peter Pappas: Earned his law degree at UNC Chapel Hill and came home to prosecute domestic violence and child abuse cases as an addis assistant district attorney here in Cumberland County. Today he practices law in Fayetteville. He was first elected in 2022 and he's asking for a third term. He has no opponent on the November ballot, so this is his own that's the only name you're gonna see for District 44.

Charles Smith: Today he practices law training. He was first elected in twenty twenty two and he's asking for a third term. He has no opponent on the November ballot, so this is his own that's the only name you're gonna see for District forty three.

Peter Pappas: Early voting is open right now through October thirty first, and election day is November third. Charles, you didn't have to come sit across from a conservative

Charles Smith: Early voting is open right now through October thirty first and election day is November third. Charles, you didn't have to come sit across from a conservative host with no race to win, but I appreciate you being here and welcome to the cabinet. Yeah, thanks for having me. Been on the floor, so you know glad to be back. Yeah, it's funny that we know what the power of this course is. So we've changed up a little bit. You see we're we're in our little back corner of my office now in the studio, so I think we moved on up. So you play you play college basketball at

Peter Pappas: Host with no race to win, but I appreciate you being here and welcome to the cabinet. Yeah. thanks for having me. Been on before, so you know, glad to be back. Well, you know what to expect. Yeah. That's part you know, you know what the power of this course is. So we've changed up a little bit. You see, we're in we're in our little back corner of my office now in the new studio. So think trying to move it on up. So you play you play college basketball at Emory and Henry. What position were you and who's the best player you ever had to guard? wow. That's a

Charles Smith: wow, that's a that's

Peter Pappas: That's a good question. a little icebreaker. I played small forward and power forward, depending on you know, over the four years we varied in our size. my senior year, our our starting center got hurt, so we played a little smaller. So I played more power forward. We pressed more just because of

Charles Smith: a good question. A little icebreaker. I played small forward and power forward, depending on you know, over the four years we varied in our size. my senior year our starting center got hurt, so we played a little smaller, so I played more power forward, we pressed more just because of

Peter Pappas: the the circumstances and the makeup of the team. the best player I've ever guarded. That's

Charles Smith: circumstances and making of the team. best player I've ever guarded. That's it's a good question. so how big was that school at where is Edmund Hammond? outside of Abnington, Virginia. I live in Abnon, Virginia. So you're you're looking toward the southwestern part of the state, west of Roanoke. The school was 1500, 2,000 students between graduate and undergraduate

Peter Pappas: a good question. so how big was that school? where is Emory and Henry? outside of Ab Abingdon, Virginia. I lived in Abingdon, Virginia. So you're you're looking toward the southwestern part of the state, west of Roanoke. The school was fifteen hundred, two thousand students, between graduate and undergraduate.

Charles Smith: it's oldest college or or institution of higher education in that part of the state. So it's older than Unitech.

Peter Pappas: it's the oldest college or or institution of higher education in that part of the state of Virginia. So it's older than Virginia Tech.

Charles Smith: you know, it's a it's a really pretty s pretty area school. But I've never heard of it prior to getting recruited and you know, I'm glad that we spent some time up there. Well I got excited, I I was doing the research and I'm like, he went to Emory Emory and Henry 'cause I I applied to Emory and they took me over to Oxford College. So that's where I went for my understanding.

Peter Pappas: You know, it's a it's a really pretty pretty area, pretty school. But I'd never heard of it prior to getting recruited and you know, I'm glad to have spent some time up there. Mm-hmm. Well, I got excited. I I was doing the research and I'm like, he went to Emery. no, Emery and Henry, 'cause I I applied to Emory and they kicked me over to Oxford College. So that's where I went for my undergrad there. you grew up in Fayetteville, so what's the one place in town that hasn't changed since you were a kid? Zorbus.

Charles Smith: you grew up in Fayetteville, so what's the one place in town that hasn't changed since you worked there? I don't know why they came so easily, but you know, I was just thinking of old fable staples and spinners coming back as nice. you know, Mika Sita could have been an answer until recently. Yeah, but but Zorbus, you know Yeah, absolutely not with you. There's certainly Rainbows. Rainbow Rainbow over on Range Street. is another good one.

Peter Pappas: I don't know why that came so easily, but you know, I was just thinking of old Fable Staples and Spinners coming back as nice. you know, Mikasita could have been an answer until recently. but but Zorba's yeah. Yeah, absolutely. No, I'm with you. There's certainly Rainbow Rainbow over on Ramsey Street. is another good one. very proud Greek establishment. JK's JK's, yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't forget New York down on Eastern Boulevard. Yeah. Yep, sure. But

Charles Smith: Very proud to style. JK's. JK's, yeah, yeah. Come free in New York down on Eastern Boulevard. Yeah, Shaw. But good breakfast. Yeah, there there's some there's some places that are that are hanging around. Yeah, they sure are. So really quickly, who's got the worst traffic? Raleigh's belt line or the Skyboat? man. It depends on the time of day. I think Skyboat is consistently bad. around Raleigh, you don't if you hit it at the right time

Peter Pappas: Good breakfast. Yeah, there's some there's some places that are that are hanging around. Yeah, they sure are. So really quickly, who's got the worst traffic? Raleigh's belt line or the Skybow? man. It depends on the time of day. I think Skybo is consistently bad. The around Raleigh, if you don't if you hit it at the right time, y there's so many lanes. Traffic is still probably heavy, it's just dispersed over a a greater area.

Charles Smith: so many lanes. Traffic is still probably heavy. It's just dispersed over a a greater area. but you're not sitting, you know, at a standstill. I I will say I will take Skyboat over like eight thirty, eight o'clock around Bellway. Okay. That's yeah completely fair. Carolina State or do I went to a law school in Carolina and I was a

Peter Pappas: but you're not sitting, you know, at a standstill. I I will say I will take Skybo over like eight thirty, eight o'clock around the beltway. Okay. Fair enough. We'll qualify with the time of day. That's yeah. That's completely fair. Carolina State or Duke? I mean, I went to law school at Carolina and I was a I'm a I'm a diehard Carolina fan had I not played basket. I wasn't quite good enough to play at Carolina. you know, I'm I'm at I'm now on the Carolina alumni board, so I'm up there in my

Charles Smith: I was I'm a dihored Carolina fan had I not played back. I wasn't quite good enough to play at Carolina. you know, I'm I'm ha I'm now on the Carolina alumni board, so I'm up there and my in in serving in that capacity I learned I already knew my grandparents from Carolina, my mom, but my great grandmother. So I got a huge target of not even close. Well let's talk about you grew up here, you left for Virginia and then you left Chapel Hill and then you came back. So why come home?

Peter Pappas: in in in serving in that capacity I've learned. I already knew my grandparents from the Carolina, my mom, but my great grandfather. So like I huge tar hill. Okay. It's not even not even close. Well let's talk about you grew up here, you left for Virginia and then you went to Chapel Hill and then you came back. So why come home? 'Cause

Charles Smith: But you know, a lot people in our town we become professionals and we don't so what brought you back? I think that's part of the reason I came back. You know, we we

Peter Pappas: you know, a lot of people in our town we become professionals and we don't return. So what brought you back? I think that's part of the reason I came back. You know, we we

Charles Smith: fail sometimes it's a bad route. part of that is exactly what you said people go improve themselves in education or whatever whatever

Peter Pappas: Fable sometimes gets a bad rap. and part of that is exactly what you said. People go improve themselves in education or whatever whatever you know activity and then they they take those skills and hone them somewhere else. and so that was really one of the reasons I wanted to to return. is because I I care about the city. I'm proud of the city.

Charles Smith: activity and then they they take those skills and hone them somewhere else. and so that was really one of the reasons I wanted to to return. that I I care about the city. I'm proud of city.

Peter Pappas: You know, my mom practiced law here, my grandfather practiced law here. And so having that legacy is also I didn't something I just didn't want to turn away from. I felt like I had through them, you know, a a a good building block and a strong re reputation that as long as I didn't ruin it, you know, I could that that could help. And and so pressure at all though. Right. Yeah. and and

Charles Smith: you my mom practiced law here, my grandfather practiced law here and so having that legacy is also a d something I just didn't want to turn away from. I felt like I had through them, you know, a a a good building block and a strong re reputation that as long as I didn't ruin it, you know, I could that that could help. And and no pressure at all. Right, yeah. and and

Peter Pappas: it was just it was always home. I you know, if that makes sense. I I I went to Virginia. I I knew I was never gonna stay up there. I went to play basketball.

Charles Smith: It was just it was always home. I you know, if that makes sense. I I I went to Virginia. I I knew I was never gonna stay up there. I went to play basketball. Chapel Hill's a great area, cost of living is high. and just it's where my family is, both sides. You know, it's almost I ask you that question, it's like you don't have to justify because I love my hometown. I'm not going anywhere. It does get a bad round by the people that don't know.

Peter Pappas: Chapel Hill's a great area. Cost of living is high. and Fayville just it's where my family is, both sides. You it's almost I ask you that question, it's like you don't have to justify because I love my hometown. I'm not going anywhere. It does get a bad rap by the people that don't know what

Charles Smith: What we do have to offer. I mean one of the things that's to me the most under attention to is there's a lot of talent. It's not maybe we don't have all the amenities that

Peter Pappas: we do have to offer. And we one of the things that's to me the most under attended to is there's a lot of talent here. It's not maybe we don't have all the amenities that

Charles Smith: people they complain about, you know, we don't have this, we don't have that. But what do we have? And who do we have? Well we have a lot of very vibrant good people. It is. It certainly is. now you prosecuted domestic violence and child abuse cases as an assistant VA, the media and these that dog.

Peter Pappas: People they complain about, you know, we don't have this, we don't have that. But what do we have? And who do we have? And we have a lot of very vibrant good people. It is. It it certainly is. now you prosecuted domestic violence and child abuse cases as an assistant DA. Nobody envies that job. What did that work teach you that you did take to Raleigh? How to listen. That those those were very difficult cases.

Charles Smith: What did that work teach you that you did take the rock? How to listen. that those those were very difficult cases. and you know, but as you were reading that earlier, I I need nothing to do. It's been s six, seven years since I I do all completely civil litigation now, so I don't do any criminal work. But

Peter Pappas: And it you I was as you were reading that earlier, I was like, I need to update that 'cause it's been six six, seven years since I've I do all completely civil litigation now, so I don't do any criminal work. But i it it it's harder, I won't say that. There there are there are additional steps when you prosecute those kinds of cases because you have to develop a rapport and a relationship to your to your victim. Not that you don't do that in other settings, but you're you know, in the D V setting and in the child abuse setting

Charles Smith: it it it's harder, I won't say that. But there are there are additional steps when you prosecute those kinds of cases because you have to develop a rapport and a relationship to your to your victim. Not that you don't do that in other settings, but you're you know, in the D V setting and the child abuse setting, you're dealing with somebody who has been hurt and probably who has been quiet for some time. You know, a lot by the time the the victim and people

Peter Pappas: you're dealing with somebody who has been hurt and probably who has been quiet for some time. You know, a lot by the time the the victim and people say survivor, but the prosecuting witness, by the time he or she, mostly women, had the resolve and and courage to try to seek and take out charges, this had been going on. Right. And they had been submissive and quiet and in a very

Charles Smith: survivor, but the prosecuting witness by the time he or she, mostly women, had the resolve and and courage to try to seek and take out charges, this had been going on. And they had been submissive and quiet and in a very subservient relationship. And and I'm I'm I'm male. So I learned to listen to their story. And and a lot of times their story didn't involve anything relevant to the case or stuff stuff that wouldn't be admissible. I was getting a ton of background that was beyond now there's a there's a specific incident that's alleged to have happened hallucinate and that's what we have to show. But I'm getting a lot of background. And I learned how through that I learned how to really listen

Peter Pappas: subservient relationship. And and I'm I'm I'm male. So I learned to listen to their story. And and a lot of times their story didn't involve anything relevant to the case or stuff stuff that wouldn't be admissible. I was getting a ton of background that was beyond no, there's a there's a specific incident that's alleged to have happened on this date and that's what we have to show. But I'm getting a lot of background. And I learned how th through that I learned how to really listen and not

Charles Smith: And not as an attorney you you listen a lot of times for the purpose of contradicting or say, that's not right, I can I can rebutton that here. But I listen to understand and to develop relationships and and I really attribute that to that time when the I realized how d how important it was to get to know someone personally, and and listen and not talk. And it it's that's certainly well modeled.

Peter Pappas: As an attorney, you you listen a lot of times for the purpose of contradicting or say, no, that's not right, I can I can rebut that here. But I listen to understand and to develop relationships and and I really attribute that to that time and the I realized how important it was to get to know someone personally and and listen and not talk. And it it's that served me well in Raleigh. Well

Charles Smith: So here we are, representative, the patient representative. And roughly I think we'll sum that up. So the C you took over was from Billy Richardson. Long legacy with that guy. So what did you inherit and what did you want to do differently?

Peter Pappas: So here we are, representative, the patient representative in Raleigh, I think would sum that up. So the C you took over was from Billy Richardson, long legacy with that guy. So what did you inherit and what did you want to do differently? So I guess where were you when you started and what do you want to do a little different? Well or do we need to do different? One of the best decisions I made was was keeping Billy's Representative Richardson's legislative assistant. And she's still my legislative assistant. going into my first term

Charles Smith: So I guess where were you when you started and what do you want to do with Dead Fife? Or do we need to do Deaf Fire? One of the best decisions I made was was keeping Billy's Representative Richardson's legislative system. And she's still my legislative system. going into my first term, no one knows what's working.

Peter Pappas: No one knows what to expect.

Charles Smith: I mean I've been there now for two terms and I s I'm still learning. Can you say that for lower for the ones in the back and you don't know what you don't know when you're running? yeah, no you please once you get once you get up there it's you know things move quickly and and you're not everyone's new. So you're dealing with people who've been there for a decade and they know exactly where thing you know, how the bills move, how the legislative process works and you know, that's not something un until you've done it, you really y you can know generally what what happens, how it how it's supposed to happen procedurally, but how it happens in in Raleigh is just different.

Peter Pappas: I mean, I've been there now for two terms and I s I'm still learning. Can you say that for louder for the ones in the back that you don't know what you don't know when you're running? yeah. No, please. Once you get up there, it's you know, things move quickly and you and you're not everyone's new. So you're dealing with people who've been there for a decade and they know exactly where thing you know, how the bills move, how the legislative process works and you know, that's not something un until you've done it, you really y you can know generally what what happens, how it how it's supposed to happen procedurally, but how it happens in in Raleigh is just different.

Charles Smith: and not something you can really learn through a book. You have the experience of it and Lee is her name. keeping Lee on on as my legislative assistant was tremendously helpful. She really flattened my learning curve. So that that's probably the that that's the the best thing I can I I've kept little mementos from, you know, Rick Lager was in the seat before Billy Richard. It's it's the scene's got a lot of old failed names to it. So I I'm proud of that and my office retains a lot of it.

Peter Pappas: and and not something you can really learn through a book. You have to experience it. And Lee is her name. keeping Lee on on as my legislative assistant was tremendously helpful. She really flattened my learning curve. So that that's probably the that that's the the best thing I ca I I've got little mementos from, you know, Rick Glazer was in the seat before Billy Bridge. It's it's the seat's got a lot of old fable yeah names to it. And so I I'm proud of that and my office retains a lot of it. Well, not to be too casual, but Mr. Richardson, I mean, he still shows up. He the last time I saw him speaking in public was at the IBT, the tran the water transfer thing. Sure. And you know, I loved his just colloquial way he put it. He's like, look, you guys knew it was a problem

Charles Smith: Not to be too casual, but Mr. Richardson, I mean, he still shows up. He the last time I saw him speaking in public was at the IBT the train the water transfer thing. And you know, I loved his just colloquial way he put it. He's like, Look, you guys knew it was a problem.

Peter Pappas: 40 years ago. You know, now, you know, and when I was in the legislative, you know, and I'm like, damn, he really was there back then, yeah fighting for us. So I think you definitely have a very storied seat. Now, you are unopposed and you could have skipped

Charles Smith: Forty years ago. You know, now you know, and when I was in the legislative, I'm like, damn, who really was there back then? Yeah fighting for us. So I think you definitely have a very stored scene. Now, you are unopposed, and you could have skipped this race and the entire interview. But in your own words, you know, why do you want to do this another two years? I mean, you still have a young look about you, you haven't raided yet. So why do you want to do it another four years?

Peter Pappas: this race and the entire interview. But in your own words, you know, why do you want to do this another two years? I mean, you still have a young look about you. You haven't grayed yet. So why do you want to do it more?

Charles Smith: that's that's a good question. and it's something I have to revisit every couple of years. You know, I I have still have to maintain an active law practice. I can't just, you know, act like I'm practicing law and not really doing it. That's not the case at all. I've got a two year old attendant.

Peter Pappas: that's that's a good question. and it's something I have to revisit every couple of years. You know, I I have still have to maintain an active law practice. I can't just, you know, act like I'm practicing law and not really doing it. That's not the case at all. I've got a two year old at home.

Charles Smith: and and who it's painful to miss bath time sometimes when I'm in Rolle. I think I think that I'm able to add value.

Peter Pappas: and and who it's painful to miss bath time sometimes when I'm in Raleigh. I think I think that I'm able to add value for the area.

Charles Smith: Or the area. and and when say add value, I I think the quality the experience I have, you know, with the the legal training, the background, the ability to get into weeds on issues and and details on issues, you know, the ability to develop

Peter Pappas: and and when I say add value, I I think the qual the experience I have, you know, the the legal training, the background, the ability to get into weeds on issues and and details on issues, you know, the ability to develop

Charles Smith: relationships adds value that another Democrat in the seat wouldn't be able to just step into that right away. Right. Because the the seat is it that's why I'm unopposed, at least in part is because the the seat is is going if I if it wasn't me it would be another Democrat.

Peter Pappas: relationships adds value that another Democrat in the seat wouldn't be able to just step into that right away. Right. Because the the seat is it that's why I'm unopposed, I mean at least in part, is because the the seat is is going if I if it wasn't me, it would be another Democrat.

Charles Smith: Right. Assuming that that candidate you know didn't have any what you're referring to is these some of these districts are just simply

Peter Pappas: Right. Assuming that that candidate, you know, didn't have any glaring what you're referring to is these some of these districts are just simply

Charles Smith: right gonna lean one of the two votes. Yes, exactly. It's almost the way I looked at it running was like they almost took these the legislature when they we did districts was they just took certain districts out of contention. They did said, We're just gonna have this and you're gonna be Republican and we're gonna spend our time elsewhere in the swing parks. Yep, there there are a handful of districts that are very competitive in one that's how these

Peter Pappas: Right. Gonna lean one of the two ways. Exactly. It's almost the way I looked at it running was like they almost took these the legislature when they redid the districts was they just took certain districts out of contention. They did. Yep. There there are a handful of districts that are very competitive. Yeah. And that's how it is, you know, cycle after cycle. And there are some that are not you know, mine is not as lopsided as some. I would say

Charles Smith: you know, cycle after cycle and there are some that are not you know, mine is not as lopsided as some. I would say on average it's like a sixty forty district. so in in in all likelihood the seat would be held by a Democrat. So that's that's you know I and that's fine, but you know I think of adding value I think if we'll

Peter Pappas: on average it's like a sixty forty district. so in in in all likelihood, the seat would be held by a Democrat. So that's that's, you know, I and that's fine, but you know, when I think of adding value, I think of we'll we'll would it be hard to replace what you can do. And some of that is experience and just because I've been up there a couple of terms and develop relationships. but some of it is also just knowing

Charles Smith: would it be hard to replace what you can do? And and some of that is experience and just because I've been up there a couple of times and develop relationships. but some of it's also just knowing the low and and being willing to work in the weeds and that's Experience matters. I mean look we want a young doctor old lawyer. I mean we want your experience because you've been practicing law. It's a practice you learn every day. So we want you there. Now I so I will put a map up on screen when this goes out but tell me roughly like where I would live in Fayetteville that I would be in your district. Sure.

Peter Pappas: The lull and and being willing to work in the weeds and that's Experience matters. I mean, look, we want a young doctor, old lawyer. I mean, we want you experience because you've been practicing law. It's a practice. You learn every day. So we want you there. Now I so I will put a map up on screen when this goes out, but tell me roughly like where I would live in Fayetteville that I would be in your district. Sure.

Charles Smith: You'll go downtown is about as far east as as you go. all payment. Mm-hmm.

Peter Pappas: You'll go downtown is about as far east a as as you go, all of Haymount. Mm-hmm.

Charles Smith: you know, and then if you go from downtown and you sort of go out, so you're gonna go west and really north and south toward the hospital. Okay. So if you're on Pay Street, you know, Morganton Road, Flipdale, out to

Peter Pappas: you know, and then if you go from downtown and you sort of go out so and go west and really north and south toward the hospital. Okay. So if you're on Hay Street, you know, Morganton Road, Cliffdale, out to maybe the Riley Road intersection, some somewhere like farther west is is either gonna be Mike Colvin or Francis Jackson. Right. About Riley Road intersection. Le Grange is the neighborhood out that way. I I have a very that's a good way, you know, to put it. I I guess I can be biased with by with the

Charles Smith: maybe the Riley Road intersection, some somewhere like Farler West is is either gonna be Mike Colden or Francis Jackson, but about Riley Road intersection, Le Grange is the neighborhood outside. I I have a very that's a good way, you know, to put it. I I guess I can be biased with by with the district I represent. it's it is a probably the least transient area in a very transient

Peter Pappas: district I represent. it's it is a probably the least transient area in a very transient Yes. County and town. Because I have a lot of established I mean you know the Vanstor where I live, Van Story, the Haymont area, Broadell,

Charles Smith: county and town because I have a lot of established I mean in the Van Story where I live Van Story, the Haymont area, Broadell

Peter Pappas: Foxfire, Cottonade down Yadkin. So that's all yours, huh? That's that's all of mine. you know, Briarwood, Clareway, down village, village village drive, toward the hospital. Th those are established neighborhoods and those are people who aren't aren't here for two or three years and then leaving. Like there there are families in you know

Charles Smith: Roxpire, Cottonade down down the Atkin. So that's all yours. That's that's all of mine. you know, Briarwood, Clairway down village, village village drive toward the hospital. Those those are established neighborhoods and those are people who aren't aren't here for two or three years and then leaving. Like there there are families and you know generations of of families that have been in Fayetteville and sometimes in carried homes that you know they're still standing. and and so that

Peter Pappas: generations of of families that have been in Fayetteville and sometimes in the very homes that, you know, are still standing. and and so that that yeah, you'll you look at a map and see, but that's

Charles Smith: That yeah, you you look at a map and see but that's

Peter Pappas: that's about right. I mean that no you kind of the heart of the heart of Fayetteville. Growing up here and every time you mention those nightbirds, I'm like, no, you're absolutely 120% right. Like that that is old Fayetteville right there. But it's a good mix of old Fayable though. You don't have just the old Haymont crowd or the Van Story crowd. You know, you got

Charles Smith: I growing up here, and every time you mention those papers, I'm like, no, you're absolutely 120% right. Like that that is old faith though, right here. But it's a good mix of old faith, though. We don't have just the old Hamon crowd or the Van Story crowd, you know. You got the

Peter Pappas: The cottonades and the Akin Rod, that's that's a very very diverse. So now we're gonna get into some platform stuff. So North Carolina went more than a thousand days without a budget. I'm

Charles Smith: cottonades and the acorda. That's a very very diverse. So now we're gonna get into some platform stuff. So North Carolina went more than a thousand days without a budget.

Peter Pappas: sorry, I gotta bring this back up again. In July, you voted yes on the thirty-four billion dollar budget. Twenty one House Democrats voted no. That budget kept opportunity scholarships and kept the income tax triggers. So why did you find your way to vote yes? Or how did you find issues? Opportunity scholarships and the income tax.

Charles Smith: I've got bring this back up again. In July, you voted yes on the $34 billion budget. 21 House Democrats voted no. That budget kept opportunity scholarships and kept the income tax triggers. So why did you find your way to vote yes? Or how did you find on those two specific issues? Opportunity scholarships and his income tax. Well, the income tax triggers was a win for the House. And so I was also

Peter Pappas: Well the income tax triggers was a win for the House. And so I was also you know, don't quote me on this, you have to check. I well, you know, Senator McInnes was a comfere, but I was a I was I think the only house comfore from from Cumberland County

Charles Smith: Don't put me on this, you have to check. I well, you know, Senator McKinnon was a comfort, but I was I was I think the only house comfort from from Cumberland County. So I was a little bit more involved in that process. And I mean I'm not gonna sit here and say I was at the main table or Senator Ruger and and Speaker Hall, don't get me wrong. But I had a little bit of you know, I I had some some involvement. Charles, if you hang in there you're gonna have some seniority and you're gonna be the back table. Yeah, that that's the goal. and and going back to why I'm why I'm running again this term i is thinking that, you know, at least

Peter Pappas: So I was a little bit more involved in that process. And I mean, I'm not gonna sit here and say I was at the main table or Senator Berger and and Speaker Hall, don't get me wrong. But I had a little bit of you know, I I had some some involvement. Charles, if you hang in there, you're gonna have some seniority and you're gonna be at that table. Yeah, that that's the goal. and and going back to why I'm why I'm running again this term is is thinking that, you know, at least

Charles Smith: I I'm expecting Democrats to pick up seats and I will put me in a position to have more influence. I don't think the Democrats are gonna take up the state house, but I think

Peter Pappas: I'm expecting Democrats will pick up seats and that will put me in a position to have more influence. I don't think the Democrats are gonna take that the state house, but I think

Charles Smith: we'll go from

Peter Pappas: We'll go from we had forty nine seats at the election to have become unaffiliated. So I'm gonna say forty-nine, although it's technically forty. Well, see, this is the thing that people don't understand. Maybe you're a Democrat. Maybe I'm a Republican. But if you Democrat are in there and you have experience, you're gonna elevate your position in the legislature, which means your district, us, Fayetteville, benefits. Sure. Yeah. See, people they get so focused on the the blue and red cloak that we forget that.

Charles Smith: We had forty nine seats at the election to have become unaffiliated, so honestly forty nine, although it's kind of But see this is the thing that people understand. Maybe you're a Democrat, maybe I'm a Republican. But if you Democrat are in there and you have experience, you're gonna elevate your position in the legislature, which means your district, us, Fayetteville, benefits. Sure. Yeah. See people they get so focused on the the blue and red cloak that we forget that if we have people that we can't trust and we keep putting them back in there

Peter Pappas: if we have people that we can trust and we keep putting them back in there, our lot gets better. No, I I I agree. And I you know, when I'm up there I don't wear a a blue or red cloak. I'm a representative and I represent everyone in my district regardless of, you know, ideological leanings or wherever they may be on the spectrum. I I'm a I represent each and every person in in in the district and I and I take that seriously. So I you know I don't like I was saying you mentioned the the

Charles Smith: I like it's better. No, I I I agree and I you know, when I'm up there I don't wear a a blue or red cloak, I'm a representative and I represent everyone in my district regardless of, you know, ideological leanings or wherever they may be on the spectrum. I I'm a I represent each and every person in in in the district and I and I take that seriously. So I you know, I don't like I was saying you mentioned the the the income tax trickers. It was a win for the House because I know what what the Senate wanted to do.

Peter Pappas: the income tax triggers. It was a win for the House because I know what what the Senate wanted to do.

Charles Smith: And so we were able to bring it back and that was a compromise there. The opportunity scholarships

Peter Pappas: And so we were able to bring it back and that was a compromise there. The opportunity scholarships,

Charles Smith: What what do you like about the opportunity scholarships and what's some what are your biggest drawbacks? I don't I don't have an issue with them fundamentally. I I think that there have to be guardrails and that's my problem with it now. you know, it

Peter Pappas: W what do you like about the opportunity scholarships and what's some one of your biggest tech drawbacks? I don't I don't have an issue with them fundamentally. I I think that there have to be guardrails and that's my problem with it now. you know it

Charles Smith: we went from having an income limit, so y in your family of four making above a certain you you have an income over a certain threshold, you you don't qualify. It's it's still sort of

Peter Pappas: we went from having an income limit. So y if you're a family of four making above a certain yeah if you have an income over a certain threshold, you you don't qualify. And it and it's still sort of you know, it it incrementally, the more money you make, the less you're you're eligible to receive. And and that's that's probably right. I I do think at some point, you know, if you're a family of four and you make over two hundred and fifty thousand dollars a year, you know, that that family probably has the discretionary income to send

Charles Smith: you know, it it incrementally the more money you make the less you're you're eligible to receive. And and that's that's probably right. I I do think at some point, you know, if you're a family four and you make over two hundred and fifty thousand dollars year, you know, that that family probably has a discretionary income to send their child. So in that with that in mind, is that being the you feel like the incomes are too low and need to be great or too high? I I would put a cap I would put a cap somewhere. So a a family can make whatever amount of money you can be made

Peter Pappas: their child. So in that with that in mind, does that mean the you feel like the incomes are too low and need to be rate or too high? I I would put a cap I would put a cap somewhere. So a a family can make whatever amount of money you can be make make millions of dollars. And you can still be eligible. Now you're eligible for a less amount, but you still get something. And so I think there has to be some limit as to you know where where do we where do we stop, you know, make where do we stop for eligibility purposes?

Charles Smith: make millions of dollars you can still be eligible. Now you're eligible for a less amount, but you still get something. And so I think there has to be some limit as to, you know, where where do we s where do we stop, you know, mate where do we stop for eligibility purposes. I think the more s as schools continue to receive public dollars, I think the flip side of that is there has to be some accountability. And that's what I've kind of pushed back on. It's like, okay, these schools are private in form, but are they private in substance when that their tuition is coming from? What would that look like? What what kind of guardrails do you want? Because I I believe we're almost on the same page with that. I don't agree with giving money to a school that's gonna teach people to become jihadists or something. Right, right. So, you know, what kind of guardrails do you want to see? I I

Peter Pappas: I think the more s as schools continue to receive public dollars, I think the flip side of that is there has to be some accountability. And that's what I've kind of pushed back on is like, okay, these schools are private in form, but are they private in substance when their tuition's coming from what would that look like? What what kind of guardrails do you want? Because I I believe we're almost on the same page with that. I don't agree with giving money to a school that's gonna teach people to yeah become jihadists or something. Right, right. So, you know, what kind of guardrails do you wanna see? I I

Charles Smith: To to your point, s it it might even vary based on the percentage of the revenue from the school that's coming from the state. Like how you know, maybe you have gar more guardrails than if seventy five percent of the school's, you know, tuition is coming from the state versus a school that accepts, you know,

Peter Pappas: To to your point, s and it might even vary based on the percentage of the revenue from the school that's coming from the state. Like how you know, maybe you have gar more garrails if seventy five percent of the school's, you know, tuition is coming from the state versus a school that accepts, you know, vouchers or opportunity scholarships, you know, in a more limited fashion. And and the the argument for me is if you want to be private, be private.

Charles Smith: vouchers or opportunity scholarships, you know, in a more limited fashion. And and the the argument for me is if you want to be private, be private. Like you don't have like you you you say, it's a private school, but you start blurring the line when you start taking public dollars and the percentage of the public dollars versus you compared to your overall revenue or tuition numbers. I I think that could be important. But but generally speaking, some sort of curriculum like you said, you know, you don't I

Peter Pappas: Like you don't have like you you you say, it's a private school, but you start blowing the line when you start taking public dollars and the percentage of the public dollars versus you compared to your overall revenue or tuition numbers. I I think that could be important. But but generally speaking, it some sort of curriculum, like you said, you know, you don't w

Charles Smith: I'm not saying, you know, the reason that schools are private is to so they have some of the flexibility there.

Peter Pappas: I'm not saying, you know, the reason the schools are private is to so they have some of the flexibility there. Just

Charles Smith: Just this morning or yesterday, so did you publish an article about Erica Kirk going to Fable Christian School and some parents voice concerns over security, which way to go parents. Now if it wasn't a problem, now it is. Now people are looking, so good job on that. but I believe there was some electeds in there that said, well maybe it's more hate speech and it's like, okay.

Peter Pappas: this morning or yesterday, City of You published an article about Erica Kirk going to Fayable Christian School. And some parents voiced concerns over security, which way to go, parents. Now, if it wasn't a problem, now it is. Now people are looking. So good job on that. but I believe there was some electeds in there that said, well, maybe it's more hate speech, and it's like, okay.

Charles Smith: Yes, they accept school vouchers. But does that

Peter Pappas: Yes, they accept school vouchers. But does that are we not looking at what they're teaching or making some basics like requirements that standardization of testing? Like s how how do you g how can the state I'm looking at it from we are giving them tax dollars, we have to be able to give taxpayers some idea of our returnal. It's an investment. Okay. So there has to be some some measurable component to it. Well, but just like public schools are an investment using that same methodology. So are we gonna look do we look at public schools

Charles Smith: are we not looking at what they're teaching or making some basics like requirements that standardization of testing like how how do you how can the state I'm looking at it from we are giving them tax dollars, we have to be able to give taxpayers some idea of our returnal it's an investment. Okay. So there has to be some some measurable component to it. Well but just like public schools are an investment, using that same methodology, so are we gonna look do we look at public schools the same do we put the same metrics on them that we would in private?

Peter Pappas: the same that we put the same metrics on them that we would a private. Yeah, I think there well, right now there's more and and like private schools don't have to have

Charles Smith: Yeah, I think there was right now there's more and and like private schools don't have to have

Peter Pappas: teachers with any kind of certification. You know, so so are you know public schools do. Public schools, the students have standardized tests. They have regulations as to w the the length of the day of, you know, the length of each school day. I think and and you know, I don't I don't know all regulations imposed on public schools. education is not

Charles Smith: teachers with any kind of certification. You know, so so are you know public schools do. Public schools, the students have standardized tests. They have regulations as to w the the length of the day of you know, the length of each school day. And and you know, I don't I don't know all regulations imposed on public schools. education is not I mean it's become an area that I'm somewhat versed in just because of the nature of it and it's important. But I I don't come from you're gonna get there if you're saying I I don't come from from a education background. But but I think just

Peter Pappas: I mean it's become an area of that I'm somewhat versed in just because of the nature of it and it's important. But I I don't So you're gonna get there here soon. I don't I don't come from from a education background. Right, right. But but I think just as a general principle, if if an entity receives public dollars and and is it receiving public dollars over an extended period, like like a lot of these private schools, and a lot of money too. Like I'm not just talking some some private schools are really

Charles Smith: And and it's receiving public dollars over an extended period like like a lot of these private schools we have a lot of money too. Like I'm not just taught some some private schools are really making a lot of money on this or receiving a lot of money. I won't say making I've seen a lot of them raise their tuition too. Now that it's another good point of tuition caps, or at least some way of because then it's not really you're not expanding opportunity if the max voucher is sixty five hundred dollars and the schools raising tuition by sixty five hundred dollars. Right. And I don't listen, think the cost of everything has gone up. Do I think schools

Peter Pappas: making a lot of money on this or or receiving a lot of money. I won't say making it I've seen a lot of them raise their tuition too. Now that it's another good point, you know tuition caps. Or at least some way of impl because then it's not really you're not expanding opportunity if the max voucher is sixty five hundred dollars and the school's raising tuition by sixty five hundred dollars. Right you the school's just making more money. Right. And I don't listen, think the cost of everything has gone up. Do I think schools

Charles Smith: may have a legitimate need for raising tuition, sure. But yes, we're seeing that too. We're we're

Peter Pappas: may have a legitimate need for raising tuition? Sure. But yes, we're seeing that too. We're we're private schools are just increasing their tuition by you know a proportional amount to the vouchers or the max voucher award and at that point

Charles Smith: private schools are just increasing the tuition by you know a proportional amount to the voucher or the max voucher award and at that point

Peter Pappas: the idea of you're you're you're doing this to provide opportunities to a greater number of students is kind of a farce. It's amazing. So are there currently no standards for say that the school has to crack the books and have audited financials to say there's nothing right now. There are no no there's no accountability. See and that's too wide.

Charles Smith: The idea of you're you're doing this to provide opportunities to a greater number of students is kind of a false. So are there currently no standards for say that the school has to crack the books and have all the good financials to say there's nothing right now? There are no there's no found bill. See, and that's too wide. It is, yeah, that's what I mean. There has to be some parameters. Yeah. The thing about and my argument like values in my life. I think property taxes are my perpetual land needs of a home since I own it.

Peter Pappas: It is. Yeah, that's what I mean. There has to be some parameters. Yeah. The thing about and my argument lately with vouchers is like, look, I paid property taxes on my perpetual land lease of a home since I owned it. And I'm going to continue doing it until I die. So to me, the vouchers are if I have children, I might get a deferment on those for how long is a kid in school? Ten years, eight years, whatever is in you know, private school. And then I go back to paying and all of my money goes back to wherever y'all want to spend it. But for that little

Charles Smith: And I'm gonna continue doing it until I die. So to me, the vouchers are if I have children, I might get a deferment on those for how long is a kid in school? Ten years, eight years, whatever is in you know, private school. And then I go back to paying and all of my money goes back to wherever y'all want to spend. But for that little window of time, I get a choice of where the money I've been paying

Peter Pappas: window of time, I get a choice in where the money I've been paying, even though it's never gonna be one to one. I mean, we know that. And that's the other thing is that just 'cause I pay taxes does not mean I can that that one tax bill is gonna afford that kid. But that's all I look at it as. Just for that little block of time, give me a choice of where I send my kid. And then

Charles Smith: Even though it's never gonna be one to one. We know that. That's the other thing, is that just because I pay taxes does not mean I can that that one tax bill is enough for that kid. But that's all I look at it as. Just for that little block of time. Give me a choice of where I send my kid. And then

Peter Pappas: Yeah. Then I I think we're probably closer on that. And I'm probably have a more nuanced perspective on it than some Democrats. I'm not just gonna come out and say, we hate I

Charles Smith: Yeah, I I I think we're probably closer on that and I'm probably have a more nuanced perspective on it than some Democrats. I'm not just gonna come out and say, we date I public schools are are underfunded and we need to take care of public schools and also recognize, you know, I think of high schools or schools in my district and these are conversations I've had with principals.

Peter Pappas: public schools are are underfunded and we need to take care of public schools and also recognize, you know, I think of high schools or schools in my district, and these are conversations I've had with principals. Eighty to ninety percent of those kids are on reduced price lunches. They rely on the bus. So you can you can give you can make the voucher or the opportunity scholarship the full amount of tuition. Some kids just can't some families can't send their kids to private schools. But and so that and we're we'll never be that that will never go away. Some kids will never be able to take private because there are other things that that go into

Charles Smith: eighty to nine percent of those kids are on reduced price launches. They rely on the bus. So you can you can give you can make the voucher or the opportunity scholarship the full amount of tuition. Some kids just can't. Some families can't send them to private schools. But and so that and we'll we'll never be that that will never go away. Some kids will never be able to because there are other things that that go into you know transportation food that public schools provide that private schools even if you can pay the tuition you still send your you have to get the the child to school every day. You have to provide them with

Peter Pappas: you know, transportation, food that public schools provide, that private schools, even if you can pay the tuition, you still have to send your yes get the the child to school every day. You have to provide them with lunch. And so the those are those are considerations. I

Charles Smith: launch and so th those are those are considerations

Peter Pappas: I'm okay with the idea and the program, how it's implemented and and the fact that we've expanded it so much with no guardrails and with no accountability mess metrics. That's my problem with it now. It's like we we've got to rein it in a bit.

Charles Smith: I'm okay with the idea and the program, how it's implemented and and the fact that we've expanded it so much with no guardrails and with no accountability metrics. That's my problem with it now. It's like we we've got to rein it in a bit. To be to be responsible stewards of public dollars. Well and the other thing that I would argue, I said to a lot of May Senders that look we have a very we're very blessed to have a great economy in North Carolina. We have a great budget final. we actually had surpluses and we have and like

Peter Pappas: To be to be responsible stewards of public dollars. Exactly. And well, and the other thing that I would argue, I said to a lot of naysayers, like, look, we have a very we're very blessed to have a great economy in North Carolina. We have a great budget, finally. we actually had surpluses and we have. And like

Charles Smith: That's how we got that hundred and fifty two to one vote to defer the gas tax for however many weeks. Good

Peter Pappas: that's how we got that hundred and fifty two to one vote to defer the gas tax for however many weeks. Good.

Charles Smith: good politically fun for the election. But whatever. It was was needed. The motivation board, you know, is questionable, but it was a it was a needed I I'm just gonna look over here on that one. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna read too much into that, but you know, we have the ability to do great things. And I feel like we can do both. Both give the vouchers and fund those schools. You know

Peter Pappas: good political move right before the election. But whatever. We're it was it was needed. It was the motivation for it, you know, is questionable, but it was a it was a needed I I'm just gonna look over here on that one. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna read too much into that. But you know, we have the ability to do great things. And I feel like we can do both both give the vouchers and fund those schools. You know, this this past year, County Commission Kermland County gave the schools everything they asked for, which

Charles Smith: This this past year, County Commission Humboldt County, gave the schools everything they asked for, which my biggest red flag was well why the hell did you give them all the money they asked? Because they are missing like twelve hundred kids. So why don't you feed them twelve hundred kids left? But somebody's more wisdom than I and that's that's fine. But let's get the money. Let's let's audit that lottery. I think Augur Bullock is already gonna work on that. You know, they've increased their revenue in some so many years and the amount that they pay our schools is declined.

Peter Pappas: My biggest red flag was well, why the hell do give all the money they asked? Because they are missing like twelve hundred kids. So why don't you feed them twelve hundred kids less? But somebody's more wisdom than I, and that's that's fine. But let's get the money. Let's let's audit that lottery. I think Auditor Bullock is already gonna work on that. You know, they've increased their revenue in some so many years and the amount that they pay our schools has declined. Shouldn't be that way. So Yeah, I I agree. I don't see it as an either or problem. I I think it's something we can have both.

Charles Smith: shouldn't be done. So Yeah, I I agree. I don't see it as an either or a problem. I I think it's something we can have both,

Peter Pappas: but we can't have both with the way it's currently implemented. There there have to be there has to be some sort of accountability metrics w when we're sending the amount of public dollars we are to some private schools. we have to know what we're getting in return. Well,

Charles Smith: but we can't have both with the way it's currently implemented. There there have to be there has to be some sort of accountability metrics w when we're sending the amount of public dollars we are to some private schools. we have to know what we're getting in return.

Peter Pappas: look, it's no it's no different than the federal government paying like three thousand dollars for a toilet seat back in the eighties to a contractor. Whenever the government gets involved to help pay for stuff, it gets more expensive. So that's not really a new thing.

Charles Smith: Look, it's no it's no different than the federal government paying like three thousand dollars for a toilet seat back in the eighties to the contracting. Whenever the government gets involved to help pay for stuff, it gets more expensive. So that's not really a new thing. so you pointed out North Carolina already has the lowest corporate income tax rate of the forty-four states that have one.

Peter Pappas: So you've pointed out North Carolina already has the lowest corporate income tax rate of the forty-four states that have one. There are two tax amendments on this ballot. One caps the income tax rate at three and a half percent, and the other lets the legislature limit property tax increases. So how are you personally gonna vote on each one? And why? for the I don't want to ask you how you're gonna do your ballot, but what's what's the strengths and weaknesses? I voted against those

Charles Smith: There are two tax amendments on this ballot. One caps the income tax rate of three and a half percent, and the other lets the legislature limit property tax increases. So how are you personally gonna vote on one? And why? or the I don't want to ask you how you're gonna do your ballot, but what's what's the space of the business? I voted against those amendments or the proposed constitutional amendments, not because I don't ever think there's a there's a

Peter Pappas: amendments or the proposed constitutional amendments, not because I don't ever think there's a there's a

Charles Smith: time where we can reduce like income tax, you know, below a certain threshold. But it our our our taxes have to be to me that's a very fluid thing because our needs as a state are fluid. So if you cap it

Peter Pappas: time where we can reduce like income tax, you know, below a certain threshold, but the our our our taxes have to be to me that's a very fluid thing because our needs as a state are fluid. So if you cap it,

Charles Smith: it becomes hard to be responsive. That's why we have a budget every two years, is because something like Kaleem happens. You know, w we know certain things are always going to be, you know, are we're gonna require payments from the state.

Peter Pappas: it becomes hard to be responsive. That's why we have a budget every two years is because something like clean happens. You know, we we know certain things are always going to be, you know, we're gonna require payments from the state.

Charles Smith: But there are a lot of there are unforeseen things and sometimes catastrophic unforeseen circumstances like Kaleem that require additional funds to support in that in this case the the whole western part of the state. and so I don't think putting a cap

Peter Pappas: But y there are a lot of there are unforeseen things and sometimes catastrophic unforeseen circumstances like Aline that require additional funds to support in that in this case the w the whole western part of the state. and so I don't think putting a cap

Charles Smith: on

Peter Pappas: on on income tax

Charles Smith: income tax.

Peter Pappas: is just I just don't think that's small. In the constitution. Yes. Because it's harder to undo an amendment than it is to weaken. Yeah, you you take away the legislature the legislature can undo the legislature the next the next session. And so and that's good. I don't think an income tax should always be stagnant. It can it can ebb and flood. But I think the argument for it was that there's neighboring states that have lower so we're going to lose industry. And never have I ever heard economic development say, you know,

Charles Smith: It is I don't think that's small. In the Constitution. Yes, yes. It's harder to undo an amendment than it is. Exactly. We you take away the legislature the legislature can undo the legislature the next the next session. And so and that's good. I don't think that income tax should always be stagnant. It can it can float. But I think the argument for it was that there's neighboring states that have lower, so we're gonna lose industry. And never have I ever heard economic development say, you know, we have this three billion dollar a year company going to come to it, but if our tax rate

Peter Pappas: We had this three billion dollar a year company gonna come here, but if our tax rate

Charles Smith: were just one percent less they would have come nobody I don't think they care. Right. And a corporate income tax rate we're already comparably low in the southeast. I mean we had the lowest corporate income tax in the southeast so we're already competitive we're also a great state you know if I'm if I'm looking to move and one thing we are looking to do in the legislature and I'm I'm co-chair of this caucus it's

Peter Pappas: was just one percent less, they would have come nobody I don't think they care. Right. And the corporate income tax rate, we're already comparably low in the southeast. I mean, we had the lowest corporate income tax in the southeast, so we're already competitive. We're also a great state. you know, if if I'm if I'm looking to move, and one thing we are looking to do in the legislature, and I'm I'm co chair of this caucus, is the

Charles Smith: N STI, National Safety and Technology. I don't I don't even know the the acronym, but it has to basically the the purpose of it is to try to encourage you know, with through the Trump administration, we're seeing a lot of federal tax dollars being allocated to DOD. How do we get DOD contracts to North Carolina and get some of that federal knowledge? You know, if we're if we're losing money from the Department of Education, how can we have to move and replace that with other funding? And we're like twenty fifth in the country in DOD contract funding.

Peter Pappas: N STI, national safety and technology. I don't I don't even know the the acronym, but it has to basically the the purpose of it is to try to encourage you know, with through the Trump administration, we're seeing a lot of federal tax dollars being allocated to DOD. How do we get DOD contracts to North Carolina and get some of that federal dollars? You know, if we're if we're losing money from the Department of Education, how can we how can we move and replace that with other funding? And we're like twenty fifth in the country in DOD contract funding. Really? We are.

Charles Smith: Really? What we have the fourth largest military population I think. But we're twenty fifth in DOD funding and we're close to Washington.

Peter Pappas: Well we have the fourth largest military population, I think. Yeah. But we're twenty fifth in DOD funding and we're close to Washington. So that's that sort of was the impetus for the caucus. admittedly I've missed some just because of the legal practice, I haven't been able to go to some of the things, but we've had various meetings, we've met with the chamber, and that's something that I really think can can can take off and supplant some of the funding federally that that's, you know, no longer really trickling down to the states. And that's a little disheartening, we're twenty five. I mean Yeah.

Charles Smith: So that's that sort of was the impetus for the caucus. admittedly I've missed them just because of the legal practice I've been able to go to some of the things, but we've had various meetings, we met with the chamber, and that's something that I really think can can can take off and supplant some of the funding federally that that's you know, no longer really trickling down to the state. And that's a little disheartening with twenty five. I mean have so you said the fourth largest population, but with twenty five on the list for contracts. Yes. If not twenty five, I'm I'm

Peter Pappas: have so you said the fourth largest population, but were twenty five on the list for contracts. Yes. Wow. If not twenty five, I'm I'm I'm like eighty ninety percent sure that's right, but it's in the middle. Yeah, out of fifty, that's right in the middle. was somebody asleep at the switch, you think? Or is that it so were we focused too much on another thing and we just kind of let the D O D contracts by the wayside? Who's responsible to keep an eye on that? You know, I

Charles Smith: I'm like eighty nine percent sure that's right, but it's it's in the middle. was somebody asleep with switch, you think, or is that so will we focus too much on another thing and we just kind of let the DOD contracts on the wayside? Who's responsible to keep an eye on? You know, I I don't I don't know. I mean I don't know that there's anyone who really has that responsibility, which is maybe why, you know, the the funding is but I think it it's now making

Peter Pappas: I don't I don't know. I mean I don't know that there's anyone who really has that responsibility, which is maybe why, you know, the the funding is I think it it's now making bringing awareness and trying to trying to change that. Okay. and and incentivize, you know, or or encourage DOD spending funding to come trickle down into North Carolina. Okay. So you so you've been very busy. You filed I have that you filed twenty three bills this session. Is that correct?

Charles Smith: bring awareness and trying to try and change them. Okay. and and incentivize, you know, or or encourage the abuse of the new funding to come trickle down and go through it. Okay. So you so you've been very busy. You filed I have you filed twenty three bills this session. Is that correct? You remember for it so se several pass the House, Donald's become law. So is that just life in the minority or is there a lesson it?

Peter Pappas: You remember? I'll take your word for it, sure. So several passed the house, none has become law. So is that just life in the minority, or is there a lesson in it? Dim's the breaks. I don't Yeah. And sometimes bills and and it cuts both ways. the Senate will hold our bills and the House will hold some Senate bills in a in an effort to negotiate other things. And so sometimes that happens. you know

Charles Smith: then's the breaks, I don't Yeah, and sometimes bills and and it cuts both ways. the Senate will hold our bills and the House will hold some Senate bills in an effort to negotiate other things, and so sometimes that happens. you know it it can be hard

Peter Pappas: it i it can be hard being in the minor minority it does present certain challenges, but there are some and I don't there's some Democratic members who don't pass bills through their own chamber. I have been able to get I can get bills out of the House. Okay. Getting them to the Senate through the Senate s it it's not just a matter of is this a good piece of legislation or not. Sometimes there are other political footballs that are being or or there's a political tug of war and that bill gets consumed by some other you know, some other issue or does it get like absorbed and put into another bill or does it

Charles Smith: being a minor minority does present certain challenges, but there are some and there's some Democratic members who don't pass bills through their own chamber. I have been able to get I can get bills out of the House. Getting them to the Senate through the Senate s i it's not just a matter of is this a good piece of legislation or not. Sometimes there are other political footballs that are being or or there's a political type of war and that bill gets consumed by some other you know some other issue or does it get like absorbed and put into another bill or does it just start out? Yes, that has that has happened and I I

Peter Pappas: Just starting the line. That has that has happened. And I I s I I'd have to look back, but there are there have been instances where that exact thing has happened where, you know, something I filed or co sponsored as a primary with someone else, you know, maybe as the main primary, that language was stuffed into another bill. So, you know, even if the the legislation doesn't pass in the exact bill, it it can it can become it can become part of some other piece of legislation and and the underlying

Charles Smith: I I'd have to look back, but there there have been instances where that exact thing has happened where, you know, something I filed or co-sponsored as a primary with someone else, you know, maybe as the main primary, that language was stuffed into another bill. So, you know, even if the if the legislation doesn't pass in the exact bill, it it can it can become it can become part of some other piece of legislation and and the underlying principal point of the legislation is still ultimately approved in the coming board. And I believe, and not to disparage either party, but I think sometimes when they got a halfway staker they stick it in something larger that's gonna pass, so they get that little bit through. So how many times were you held hostage with your with your proposed doors? How many times did you think out of twenty something you how many did you feel like you were being upon that they were using you negotiate something else.

Peter Pappas: principle or point of the legislation is still ultimately approved and becomes law. And I believe, and not to disparage either party, but I think sometimes when they got a halfway stinker, they stick it in something larger that's gonna pass, so they get that little bit through. So how many times were you held hostage with your s with your proposed bills? How many times this year you think out of twenty something you how many did you feel like you were being the pawn? That they were using you to negotiate something else?

Charles Smith: A a handful. four or five. You know, they were there were some bills I really liked. and there they just they existed and one that really comes to mind which I think was a good bill and something I'll refile is is it will will give

Peter Pappas: a a handful. four or five. You know, there were there were some bills I really liked. and they're they just they existed and the one that really comes to mind which I think was a good bill and something I'll refile is is it would it would give a benefit to to veterans. So right now there's a state employment

Charles Smith: a benefit to to veterans. So right now there's a state informant

Peter Pappas: incentive, I don't know if that's the right word, but the there's a incentive in state employment or it's a it's a mark in your favor if you're a vetr if you're a wartime vet. So I was looking at that that we haven't really had a well, this was before the, you know, I Iran conflict war, whatever you want to call it, but we hadn't really had a war or war since, you know,

Charles Smith: incentive, I don't know if that's the right word, but the there's incentive in state employment or it's it's a mark of your favor if you're a vet if you're a wartime veteran so I was looking that that we haven't really had a well this is before the you know I Iran conflict board I want to call it but we haven't really had a war or war since you know it's it's been it's yeah it's it's been some time. So it would expand that state employment preference to to

Peter Pappas: It's been it's been some time. So it would expand that state employment preference to to

Charles Smith: veterans, assuming they they were discharged honorably, and spouses of offer duty to them. Active duty, my thought was yes, active duty spouses, because if we want to retain veterans, veterans make good citizens, we want to keep them in the state, the best way to do that is to have their spouse employed by the state. Sure. I mean that that that to me makes sense. and so

Peter Pappas: veterans, assuming they they were discharged honorably, and spouses of of vet of So it would give priority to them for state hiring. My thought was yes, active duty spouses because if we want to retain veterans veterans make good citizens, we want to keep them in the state, the best way to do that is to have their spouse employed by the state. Sure. I mean that that that to me makes sense. Mm-hmm. and so

Charles Smith: pr extending that preference not only to veterans, the wartime vets, so extending it first to all all veterans that were on the discharge, but then also to spouses

Peter Pappas: pr extending that preference not only to veterans of wartime vets, so extending it first to all all veterans that were honorably discharged, but then also to spouses

Charles Smith: of veterans or active duty military as a way to you know as as the active duty member transitions to you know private life seem to be enlightened if his or her spouse is important in North Carolina, I think they're they're and in good employment they're gonna stay. Now

Peter Pappas: of veterans or active duty mil active duty military as a way to, you know, as as the active duty member transitions to you know, private life, civilian life, if his or her spouse is employed by the state of North Carolina, I think they're they're and in good employment, they're gonna stay. Now that got caught up in all the DEI stuff. And I we won't have to get into all that, but that's what 'cause it was talking about state employment preferences for something beyond

Charles Smith: that got caught up in all the D guys. And we won't have to get into all that, but that's what happened, because it was talking about state employment preferences for something beyond. Yeah.

Peter Pappas: it was a metric to look at that wouldn't be considered like quality. And so that got tied up. And so that was a good bill and it's a bill I'm gonna refile because I think it I think it makes a lot of sense when you talk about our military installations and you know, it r encouraging individuals to stay in the state as they transition to civilian life. I think it makes a lot of sense to do so.

Charles Smith: It was a metric to look at that wouldn't be considered like quality. And so that got tied up and so that was a good bill and it's a bill I'm gonna refile because I think I think it makes a lot of sense when we talk about our military installations and you know, w encouraging individuals to stay in the state as they transition to civilian life. I think it makes a lot of sense to do so.

Peter Pappas: Well yeah. But it just got it was a bad session to file the bill. Right, right. sometimes it's just not your time, man. and if I'm not mistaken, from Fort Bragg, what's our attrition? Like when they re

Charles Smith: but it just got it was a bad session to file the bill. sometimes it just might be fine, yeah. and if I'm not mistaken, from Fort Bragg, what's our attrition? Like when they were

Peter Pappas: when they process out or retire out of Fort Bragg, don't we lose was it like one third of them? I think we lose like one out of three that are there. They don't remain here because we don't have We we we don't do enough to touch the active duty members as they're transitioning to civilian life. I'll something I learned

Charles Smith: When they process out or retire out of full brag, don't we lose like one third of them? I think we lose like one out of three that are there if they don't remain here because we don't have. We we don't do enough to touch the active duty members as they're transitioning to sleep in life. I've something I learned early on. We have a Department of Military Investment Affairs at state level, the EPA. that include there there is a transitional

Peter Pappas: Early on, we have a Department of Military and Veteran Affairs at the state level at the NBA. that include there there is a transitional

Charles Smith: part or piece of of the D B A. You know, obviously you have the a military arm, a veteran arm, there's a transitional services arm. Right. There is one person. One person in that in that department. Virginia has like twenty, twenty five people doing the same thing. And so one person, I don't I don't care if it's Superman or S or you know superwoman or whatever. Wonder Woman. Yeah. One person can't do it. And so we we need to work on

Peter Pappas: part or piece of of the D V A. You know, obviously you have a a me a military arm, a veteran arm, there's a transitional services arm. Right. There is one person, one person in that in that department. Virginia has like twenty, twenty five people doing the same thing. And so one person, I don't I don't care if you're s Superman or s or you know, superwoman or whatever. Wonder woman. Yeah. One person can't do it. And so we we need to work on

Charles Smith: And North Carolina's a great state to begin with, and there are other reasons to to stay once you once transitioning. But but I think having making that department more active will allow them to touch additional folks as they're transitioning to civilian life. Certainly more than they're doing now. we had a gentleman on the show, I think his name is Clever Port. he was with the veterans organization and he came on and we were discussing these predatory

Peter Pappas: And North Carolina's great state to begin with, and there are other reasons to to stay once you once transitioning. But but I think having making that d department more active will allow them to touch additional folks as they're transitioning to civilian life. Certainly more than they're doing now. we had a gentleman on the show, I think his name was Tanner Port. he was with the veterans organization and he came on. We were discussing these predatory. VA people that like basically that they don't work for the VA, but they'll help the soldier get all their disability and then they'll charge them back like 20, 30 percent of what they recover. But the damnable thing was that the county has a veterans office that would do the same thing. The VA or the state office veteran service officer. That would do the same thing and would not charge the percentage. so I definitely agree. We need to fund, we need to put more there so these people don't.

Charles Smith: VA people that like basically they they don't work for the VA, but they'll have the soldier get all their disability and then they'll charge them back like twenty, thirty percent of what they recover. But the damnable thing was that the county has a veterans office that would do the same thing. They would not charge that percentage. so I definitely agree. We need to fund we need to put more there so these people don't they sign them a dollar. They veteran service officers exactly that.

Peter Pappas: They signed on the Donald There are veteran service officers who do exactly that. You don't have to retain someone privately. They w they will help you. That that's their role. Now they are also underfunded, so like and and understaffed. And so that's another another component of it as well. I th they would technically be within the veterans department of the D V A, but their transitional services department,

Charles Smith: You don't have to retain someone five and they will they will help you. That that's their role. Now they are also underfunded, so I and and understand. And so that's another another component of it as well. th they would technically be within the veterans department of the D B A, but the transitional services department

Peter Pappas: you know, I don't know what the right number is, but when I heard that Virginia had twenty or twenty five people in that in their

Charles Smith: know, I don't know what the right number is, but when I heard that Virginia had twenty or twenty five people in that in their transitional

Peter Pappas: Transitional department. We have one that that seems wrong. Like there's got Especially we have the four you said the fourth largest military population. I g there there's a reason yeah, there there's some number maybe between one and twenty of twenty five. and I I don't know what that looks like. But that's something I think we can emphasize as a state. And y we talked about this all goes back to bills getting held up. That was a good bill that I I will probably refile. but that was an example of it getting caught

Charles Smith: department, we have one, that that seems wrong. Especially we have the four is that the fourth population. Yeah, there's there's some number maybe between one and twenty and twenty-five. and I I don't know what that looks like, but that's something I think we can emphasize as state. And y we talked about this all these back to the bills being held up. That was a good deal that I I will probably refile. but that was an example of it getting called up.

Peter Pappas: up in other political bills. And that's that's un that's unfortunate that it got

Charles Smith: in other We need more of that. let's see. I don't want to talk about PFAS right now. I'm sorry. we did file a Facilaria projects bill and a Spring Light projects bill. So what's what are in those bills and did any of that money make it into the July budget? The Spring Lake project I'll probably Poisson for

Peter Pappas: Lost because I I like I said we had somebody on the show that said that we need more of that. let's see. I don't want to talk about PFAS right now. I'm so over it. you did file a Fayetteville Area projects bill and a Spring Lake projects bill. So what's what are in those bills and did any of that money make it into the July budget? I'd have to see generally what what was requested from the Spring Lake projects, I probably co sign for

Charles Smith: Mike Colby. I don't I don't know. I I certainly did not I I would not have been the primary drafter of that of that bill. you know, the Fayette area projects, some some of my ask did make it into the budget. there's somebody from the chamber that that that got in. I worked with Representative Wheatley on some other ask. that was a and I I don't recall the bill offhand. generally speaking

Peter Pappas: Mike Colvin. Right, right. I don't I don't know. I I certainly did not I I would not have been the primary drafter of that of that bill. you know, the Fayette area projects, some some of my ask did make it into the budget. there's some money for the chamber that that that got in. I worked with Representative Wheatley on some other ask. that was a and I I don't recall the bill offhand. you know, generally speaking, the the city and county

Charles Smith: city and county mental

Peter Pappas: mental health response units come to mind, transportation funding. the city has had some economic development initiatives funding or funding for it that's been sort of a request they've had over that I've that I've generally tried to support. And that's the other thing is is framing the request. you know, money is money, it's not it's not red

Charles Smith: health response units come to mind, transportation funding. the city has that's an economic development initiatives funding or funding for it that's been sort of a request they've had that I've that I've generally tried to support and that's the other thing is is framing the request. you know money is money it's not it's not rhetoric.

Peter Pappas: or blue, it's green. So, you know, generally, you know, finding ones that have crossover appeal, you know, I I don't

Charles Smith: blue is green, so you know, generally finding ones that have crossover repeal. I mean, I I don't see the Republican majority funding, you know, hundred thousand dollars for the Carmen County Democratic Party. But, you know, would would they provide the city table with, you know, five hundred thousand dollars for economic development issuance, or or you know opposite community safety where could show you like return on that investment, how that's helped you know alleviate some of the stress of our launch.

Peter Pappas: to see the Republican majority funding, you know, $100,000 for the Cumberland County Democratic Party. But, you know, would would they provide the city of Fayville with, you know, five hundred thousand dollars for economic development initiatives, or or you know, Office of Community Safety, where I can show like return on that investment and how that's helped you know alleviate some of the stress of our law. If we could just get you darn blue Democrats

Charles Smith: So just sweep out the numbers and tell us the return, you know, we'll we'll go along with it.

Peter Pappas: to just be by the numbers and tell us the return, you know, we'll we'll go along with it.

Charles Smith: Go ahead, I'll mark it. Ready? Yeah.

Peter Pappas: And and that's part of it, is is asking for and I any time I get an ask,

Charles Smith: whether the city or a private entity, you know, I'm I'm asking for details. Like how is this money getting spent? We're not just gonna send you you're asking for X amount of dollars. How do you get there? You know, how how do you envision this being spent? Do you have estimates like how are you just make point or how are you where are you getting this number from?

Peter Pappas: whether the city or a private entity, you know, I'm I'm asking for details. Like how is this money getting spent? We're not just gonna send you you're asking for X amount of dollars. How do you get there? You know, how how do you envision this being spent? Do you have estimates? Like how are you just make pulling how are you where are you getting this number from?

Charles Smith: 'Cause that helps me out tremendously. And I would not take it to somebody and make an a ask for something if I can't tell them exactly how I understand it to be, you know, spent. and and so and that's something I've worked with the city and city staff on because

Peter Pappas: 'Cause that helps me out tremendously. And I would not take it to somebody and make an a ask for something if I can't tell them exactly how I understand it to be, you know, spent. and and so and that's something I've worked with the city and city staff on because I'll be hon my first term and I I get along great with city staff. I mean they're they're they're good people, but there there would just be a general ask for something and I'm like, Okay, well we need and i the detail is there, but when you send it, I need it too because I'm gonna get I know when I walk into

Charles Smith: I'll be out my first term and I I get along great with city staff and they're they're they're good people, but there there would just be a general ask for something. I'm like, yeah, we we need and the detail is there, but when you send it I need it too, because I'm gonna get I know when I walk into, you know, procreation chair in his office or when I'm talking with Speaker Hall about something, they're gonna be asking, Okay, you're asking for five hundred thousand dollars, a million dollars, how would we need to spend?

Peter Pappas: you know, appropriation chair, h hi his office, or when I'm talking with Speaker Hall about something, they're gonna be asked, okay, you're asking for five hundred thousand dollars, million dollars, how's it gonna be spent? Where's it going? And then and then you need to understand it better in and out. Yeah. And is it like essentially a sum you know, is it is it funding for brick and mortar, or is it like putting money into something that might, you know, get money back on and that, you know, that's part of the reason you look at Fayetteville Tech, Fayette State. They've done really well in budgets

Charles Smith: Where is it going? And I understand it better in a while. Yeah. And is it like essentially a sum you know, is it is it funding for brick and mortar or is it like putting money into something that might, you know, get money back on and that you know, that's part of the reason you look at fateable tech, fateable state. They've done really well in budgets. But they're also doing well with it. Yeah. But they knew what to ask for. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. No, they've done tremendous those two schools. So one more until we move on. the budget ended the sales tax break on data center electricity, and the county's data center moratorium does run out this December fifteenth. So do you think the state should set rules for data centers or leave it completely up to the counties?

Peter Pappas: But they're also doing well with it. You know, but both are really thriving. Yeah, but they knew what to ask for. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. No, they've done tremendous those two schools. So one more till we move on. the budget ended the sales tax break on data center electricity and the county's data center moratorium does run out this December fifteenth. So do you think the state should set rules for data centers or leave it completely up to the counties?

Charles Smith: How do you feel about that one?

Peter Pappas: How do you feel about that one?

Charles Smith: generally in favor of local control. I do think having state parameters allowing the local control to exist within a broader state infrastructure. So what what would you like to see the state do? I've got some ideas myself but I'll let you do what do you what do you think want to see the state do with data centers? You know I I I don't I'm not as well versed in the in the data center debate. I I know and I I've spoken with folks

Peter Pappas: generally in favor of local control. I do think having state parameters, allowing the local control to exist within a broader state infrastructure. so what what would you like to see the state do? I've got some ideas myself, but I'll let you t what do you what do you think you want to see the state do with data centers? You know, I I I don't I'm not as well versed in the in the data center debate. I I know and I I've spoken with folks here and there about about data centers, you know, my concern is, you

Charles Smith: here and there about about data centers. You know, my concern is

Peter Pappas: know,

Charles Smith: How can we protect ratepayers and taxpayers and and you know make sure that this cost is is gonna be borne at least proportionally, if not you know predominantly by the you know the the corporate entities and not not the taxpayers. There there are there are benefits to data centers. So and and this is something where, you know, I I would the state has to have some involvement. You you don't want

Peter Pappas: How can we protect ratepayers and taxpayers and and you know, make sure that this cost is is gonna be borne at least proportionally, if not, you know, predominantly by the you know, the the corporate entities and not not the taxpayer. So and and this is something where, you know, I I would the state has to have some involvement. You d you don't want the the

Charles Smith: County variations to be to explain Well I mean let's look at it like this. Duke Energy is a huge comment. I don't think Cumberland County can really tell Duke what to do. So I mean i is that fair? So maybe the state can set some regulations like and I I had it on the Monday show about it's going to the Utilities Commission in November, I think, where

Peter Pappas: County variations to be too extreme. Well, I mean, let's look at it like this. Duke Energy is a huge company. I don't think Cumberland County can really tell Duke what to do. That's yeah. So, I mean, is that fair? So maybe the state can set some regulations like and I I had it on the Monday show about it's going to the utilities commission in November, I think, where Duke is gonna agree with like Amazon DOD.

Charles Smith: Duke is gonna agree with like Amazon DOD that fifty megawatts is the floor for you've gotta say you're gonna you're gonna have this capacity and you have to pay for seventy five percent of it even if you don't use it.

Peter Pappas: that fifty megawatts is the floor for you've got to say you're gonna you're gonna have this capacity and you have to pay for seventy five percent of it even if you don't use it. Yeah. And so they're making I feel like it's up to the state to make some larger another harder stuff for the state would be it provides Duke with predictability. I I think if there's if there's no telling or no limit to the variance between the between the counties I think that becomes more expensive. You know, at least you know you setting expectations for Duke

Charles Smith: Yeah. So they're making I feel like it's up to the state to make some larger. Another argument for the state would be it provides Duke with predictability. I I think if there's if there's no telling or no limit to the variance between the between the counties, I think that becomes more expensive. Yeah, at least you know you setting expectations for Duke and the state doing that allows Duke to to at least have general rules of play or you know regulations. Yeah. And understand certain counties could deviate here and there, but you're

Peter Pappas: and the state doing that allows Duke to to at least have general rules of play or r you know regulations. Yeah. And understand certain counties could deviate here and there, but you're

Charles Smith: deviating within a known margin. Right. If there's no state involvement, the the the different the changes between the counties could be so significant that actually might be bad for the rate payers. So

Peter Pappas: deviating within a known margin. Right. If there's no state involvement, the the the differ the changes between the counties could be so significant that actually might be bad for the it would ta ratepayers. So

Charles Smith: yeah this is an issue kind of I mean like education. You know the counties have some role in in education but the school is sort of that's such a big picture thing you won't you want uniformity in certain areas. And this would be one. Well and I think it was earlier this year I had Chairman Debier exactly the state of union

Peter Pappas: Yeah, this is an issue kind of I mean like education. You know, the counties have some role in in education, but the school is sort of it's such a big picture thing. You won't you want uniformity in certain areas. And this would be one of them. Well, and I think it was earlier this year I had Chairman Debier, it was after the State of the Union from

Charles Smith: president and he mentioned data centers are gonna have to bring their own power and water and Chairman Debbie or they had just started the data center debacle view that's what I call it. and I said, well it was in Trump's

Peter Pappas: the president, and he mentioned data centers are gonna have to bring their own power and water. And the Chairman Debier, they had just started the data center debacle here, that's what I'll call it. and I said, Well, it was in Trump's

Charles Smith: State of the Union, you know he said and he looked at me and says where's the legislation? I said, damn it. He's right. You know, so it sounded good but somebody has to be in charge of and unfortunately I think it does ball to the state to

Peter Pappas: State of the union, you know, is gonna he say and he looked at me and says, Well, where's the legislation? I said, Damn it, he's right. You know. So it sounded good, but somebody has to be in charge of and unfortunately I think it does fall to the state to

Charles Smith: set those general like yeah you need to not charge the ratepayers for the extra capacity these guys are in need. We can't suck our rivers dry because we already have a problem here. and where they can be placed. I think representative

Peter Pappas: set those general like yeah, you need to not charge the ratepayers for the extra capacity these guys are gonna need. You can't suck our rivers dry because we already have a problem here, and where they can be placed. I think Representative Wheatley says they can go in the industrial park. I don't know why that's not even I don't know why that's not even being proposed here. They want to go in farmland.

Charles Smith: wheat as well as they can go in the industrial park. I don't know why that's not even I don't know why that's not even being proposed here. They want to go and farmland. And which is the ground where people live. I don't understand why it was targeted there instead of we have these industrial parks. The way the six eighty five portal is gonna have those supersides, right? Why don't they go there? Yeah. I mean, wh why why are we incentivizing them to go for farmland or is it just overlooked? What do you think about that? I don't

Peter Pappas: And which is around where people live. I don't understand why they was targeted there instead of we have these industrial parks. The way the six eighty five corridor is gonna have those supersites, right? Why don't they go there? Yeah. I mean, what why why are we incentivizing them to go for farmland or is it just overlooked? What do you think about that? I

Charles Smith: why are they trying to come to the country to come to account? I speculate on but I I'm not sure. I don't I don't know

Peter Pappas: Why are they trying to come to the country of Cumberland County? I I could speculate on it, but I I'm not sure. I don't I don't know. but I I agree with you. You know, in industrial parks would make would seem to make a lot more sense, especially when you consider the proximity to homes and homeowners and the developability, if that's the right word, of the farmland in and of itself. You know, undeveloped land could be used for other purposes. The industrial park, you kind of already

Charles Smith: But I agree with you, you know, in industrial parks would make would seem to make a lot more sense, especially when you consider the proximity to homes and homeowners and the the developability. That's the right word, not the farmland in or of itself, you know, undeveloped land could be used for other purposes. Industrial park you kind of already establish, you know, you know i i its use and so no I I agree and that's a that's a conversation, you know.

Peter Pappas: establish, you know, you know, it it its use. And so, no, I I agree and that's a that's a conversation. You know, l location is is probably down on the list where I think state involvement need like where do we need regulations? I think s leaving to the counties but commissioners are gonna know locations in their counties better than the state. Absolutely. So I you know locations generally speaking, okay. but I would like to leave more to s that's that's location itself is an issue

Charles Smith: Location is is probably down on the list where I think state involvement, where do we need regulations? I think s leaving to the counties the commissioners are gonna know locations in their counties better than the state. Absolutely. So you know locations generally speaking, okay. but I would like to leave more s that's that's location itself is an issue just speaking very generally. I would prefer to leave more locally. I think we should keep that here. Yeah. When it comes to

Peter Pappas: just speaking very generally, I I would prefer to leave more locally. I think we should keep that here. But when it comes to if they're gonna bring their own power water, then that needs to be Yeah. The state the state needs to be involved there. Data centers don't come from Charlotte to Fayetteville. They're coming from nationwide choosing North Carolina. So they need to kind of know the rules of the game coming in, in my opinion, from the state to say, well, North Carolina requires this, this and this. Yeah. Yeah. And then when you go to the municipality, then they're gonna ask for whatever else. Those I expect that will be a

Charles Smith: If they're gonna bring their own power of water, then that needs to be Yeah, the state the state needs to be involved there. Data centers don't come from Charlotte the Fayette. They're coming from nationwide choosing North Carolina. So they need to kind of know the rules of the game coming in, in my opinion, from the state to say, well, North Carolina requires this, this, and this. Yeah. Yeah. And then when you go to the municipality, then they're gonna ask for whatever. Okay.

Peter Pappas: conversation we'll continue to have going into the new session. Okay. Well, last one that I'm gonna let you go. if somebody watching agrees with me on almost everything and thinks you're just wrong on almost everything, what's the one thing you'd want them to take out of the last half hour?

Charles Smith: Well, last one that I'm gonna let you go. if somebody watching agrees with me on almost everything and thinks you're just wrong on almost everything, what's the one thing you want them to take out of the last half hour?

Peter Pappas: they can feel free to call me. I mean that that's that's I will always listen. I yeah I I don't think I know everything. I'm more than willing to listen to your opinion. And I'm someone who's very comfortable

Charles Smith: they can feel free to call me. I mean that that's that's I will always listen. I yeah, I I don't think I know everything. I'm more than willing to listen to your opinion. And I'm someone who's very comfortable agreeing to disagree. Doesn't mean you're a horrible person or I'm a horrible person. We just have differences of opinion on a certain issue and that and that's fine. That's good. And it's good to have that discourse civilly. So if anyone disagrees with me on everything, I I welcome the conversation. And and and and I open the conversation and that's something

Peter Pappas: agreeing to disagree. It doesn't mean you're a horrible person or I'm a horrible person. We just have differences of opinion on a certain issue and that and that's fine. That's good. And it's good to have that discourse civily. So if anyone disagrees with me on everything, I I welcome the conversation. And and and and I hope the conversation and that's something else I think I've learned being a representative is is when I speak to folks, I'm no longer I don't try to convince them or change their mind. My goal is that they understand where I'm coming from. Mm-hmm. And if and if you have an understanding, you don't have to agree with me

Charles Smith: else I think I've learned being a representative is that is when I speak to folks I no longer I don't try to convince them or change their mind. My goal is that they understand right though. And it and if you have an understanding, you don't have to agree with me, but it lowers the temperature and and

Peter Pappas: But it lowers the temperature and and you're willing to have future conversations. Right. And so my goal in a lot of times has has gone from I I'm right on this and I need to tell this person why I'm right and they're wrong to just explaining where I'm coming from and hoping that from the conversation there's a level of understanding that's gained. and and that that helps in future conversations. Yeah. Understood. So so I think I think if I I welcome that.

Charles Smith: you're willing to have future conversations. Right. And so my goal in a lot of times has has gone from I I'm right on this and I need to tell this person why I'm right and they're wrong to just explaining where I'm coming from and hoping that from the conversation there's a level of understanding that's gained. and and that that helps in future conversations. Yeah. so so I think I think if I I welcome that.

Peter Pappas: Okay. Well, I appreciate it. You know, you came here, you answered every question like I I expected you to, 'cause you know, it's a friendly room trying to be. So where do people find you? I know you're not running a strong campaign, but you still have a campaign. So website or Yeah. I haven't probably need to update my website. but you know, Charles Smith for N C dot com is still active. If you go to the legislative website, N C L E G dot gov, you know, I'll say this my the main phone listed there is my cell phone.

Charles Smith: Well, I appreciate it. You know, as you came here, you answered every question like I I expected you to 'cause you know, it's a friendly room trying to So where do people find you? I know you're not running a strong campaign, but you still have a campaign, so website or Yeah, I've probably to update my website. but you know Charles SmithWorrency dot com is still active. You can go to the legislative website, NCLMG dot gov. you know, I'll say this my the main phone list of there is my cell phone. I can call sometime. We had those conversations.

Peter Pappas: I get calls sometimes from people and we have those conversations

Charles Smith: Like be in my car. And I'm like, okay, well what's sometimes yeah, I don't know exactly there's a lot that goes on, so I'll I'll refresh, I'll call them back and we'll have a conversation. And in those conversations

Peter Pappas: where they disagree with me and they're they're well, they're also surprised to get me directly. You know, like be in my car and I'm like, okay, well what's sometimes yeah, I don't know exactly there's a lot that goes on, so I'll I'll refresh, I'll call them back and we'll have a conversation. And in those conversations, I've been able to employ what I've just said. You know, they they might not still agree with me. Some of these issues are ch you know, pretty politically or emotionally charged, but there's a level of understanding and also a willingness to call me again.

Charles Smith: I've been able to employ what I've just said. You know, they they might not still agree with me. Some of these issues are ch you know, pretty politically or emotionally charged, but there's a level of understanding and also a willingness to call me in. And and that's that's a good thing. People don't abuse it. It's not like I'm getting texts at midnight on a Saturday, you know. I I I felt yeah, see my parents were worried running for office because they thought it was what they see on Fox and C and N and people just hate each other. But I think once you get out and talk to people

Peter Pappas: And and that's that's a good thing. And people don't abuse it. It's not like I'm getting text at midnight on a Saturday, you know. I I I found yeah, see my parents were worried running for office 'cause they thought it was what they see on Fox and CNN that people just hate each other. But I think once you get out and talk to people, they're pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah. So and listen, if you call me between eight and I I'd I'll probably be at my off like law office doing something. But if you leave me a message, I'll I'll I'll return or an email. You know, th my email's listed there too. I check my email.

Charles Smith: They're pretty cool. Yeah, yeah. So a and listen, if you call me between eight and I I I'll probably be at my off like law office doing something, but if you leave me a message I'll I'll I'll return or an email. And my email's listed there too, I check my email.

Peter Pappas: you know, a few times a day. I don't monitor it constantly. My LA does. And she'll if there's something really important, she might shoot me a text. Sure. But you know, I I check it before I go, you know, home for lunch. You know, when I leave at the end of the day and I'll flag stuff that that's, you know, not I don't respond to every s I get a lot of blast emails, you know. I gotta ask them when's the last time you took a break and turned off the phone?

Charles Smith: few times a day. I don't monitor constantly. My LA does and she'll if there's something really important she might shoot me a text. But you know, I I check it before I go, you know, home for lunch, you know, when I leave the end of the day and I'll flag stuff that that's, you know, not e I don't respond to every s I get a lot of blast emails. I I gotta ask them, when's the last time you took a break and turned off the phone?

Peter Pappas: My wife has gotten me on gotten on me about that. There's a brick app. Have you ever heard of bricking your phone?

Charles Smith: My wife has got me on gotten on me about that. There's some a brick have you ever heard of bricking your phone? It's like you can you can set times and your phone just shuts off. And in order to get it back on you have to go to a it's not a legitimate brick, but it's like a stationary

Peter Pappas: It's like you can you can set times where your phone just shuts off. Okay. And in order to get it back on, you have to go to a it's not a legitimate brick, but it's like a stationary magnet that you put it wherever. And you have to go. So if I wanted to check my email, I'd I'd have to physically get up and go do it intentionally. So it kind of stops out the pocket. Right. And so I've unbricked my phone currently, but that's something for a while I was doing from like, you know, six thirty or seven o'clock and and then during the week and on the weekends, you know, really around

Charles Smith: magnet and you put it wherever and you have to go so if I wanted to check my unite I I have to physically get up and go do it intentionally. So it kind of stops out of the pocket. Right. And so I've unbricked my phone currently but that's something for a while I was doing from like, you know, six thirty or seven o'clock and and then during the week and on the weekends, you know, really around around my daughter's match and and when she's in bed. So like when she's awake I'm not doing that. and and that's part of it too. And I think people appreciate that honestly, though that you have a life outside of this

Peter Pappas: around my daughter's naps and and when she's in bed. So like when she's awake, I'm not doing that. and and that's part of it too. And I think people appreciate that honestly. They that you have a life outside of this

Charles Smith: And if you call me on a Saturday morning, that might be tough. And if you're setting those boundaries, and that's something I've had to learn because I'm I try to just I I I like calling people back and don't want them to think, I'll just fall asleep on job. But when I have explained that to people, I think there's another there's an understanding there and and they appreciate that. So

Peter Pappas: and if you call me on a Saturday morning, that might be tough. And if setting those boundaries and that's something I've had to learn because I'm I try to just I I I like calling people back and don't won't think he's falling asleep on the job. But when I have explained that people, I I think there's an un there's an understanding there and and they appreciate that. Yeah. Absolutely.

Charles Smith: well folks, go look it up yourself. you can Google Representative Smith and

Peter Pappas: Well, folks, go look it up yourself. you can Google Representative Smith and Charles, the door's open. Come back in the spring once the session's underway. Tell us what you're working on. Love to have you back. Yeah. Thanks for being here.

Charles Smith: Charles, the door's open. Come back in the screen once the session's underway. Tell us what you're working on. Love to have you back. Thanks for being here.