Show #216 - Chairman Kirk Deviere on the State of the County

Peter Pappas: you Good afternoon everyone. Welcome to the cabinet. I'm your host Peter Pappas. We know this is the smartest hour of radio and our job is to give the Conservatives of Fayetteville, Cumberland County a voice in the conversations that matter most. That means straight talk, real opinions, and honest discussion about what's happening in our communities across North Carolina and around the country. Joining me today in the cabinet, my co-host Mrs. Laura Musler. Hello, hello. Good afternoon and special, very special guest, Chairman of the County Commissioners, Kurt Debiere. Welcome sir. welcome great to be here thank you about special but that you know your special hurt not sure but special special we got room for everybody here okay yeah yeah yeah yeah so first so of course we're going to talk about your state of the state of the county address from last year that's the big thing going on what we're talking about yeah right so you're not on the fly yeah there you go We don't want you so prepared. thing, you I want to compliment you. You really, you delivered that pretty well. I thought I was watching a state of the human type thing because you you had the hand gesture down and there was a very poignant moment. You referenced your son when you were talking about, you know, the future of the community. And I, I felt like you had a moment where you choked up a little bit. I did. I mean, it's. This is me knowing you for a long time. know you're... really is. it was, you know, I spend a lot of time away from my family and, you know, why we do this and why we serve is to make this community better for, you know, for him, for the future generation. But he sacrifices a great deal. And so it did. catch me a little so and you might feel that way but at least maybe you're Facebook famous in this regard I mean I do see you I see pictures of you at his games and things so I don't think you're quite an absent dad I'm not absent dad but I mean there's a lot more that I could do for example tonight yeah I'm be at football and I'm gonna be at a Cape Fear Valley hospital meeting because commissioners are on that right we're part of that trustee board and you know I would be at that football practice so and that that just kind of feeds into I think a lot of people maybe run for these offices and they're like I want to run and I want to be a commissioner and they don't know what the job description looks like if you truly do it. all depends on how you do it. You know I think the most important thing we can do as elected officials is show up and listen more than we talk and so to do that you have to be present you have to be in the community and you have to be in not just parts of the community you have to be in all parts of the community and you have to show up for your responsibilities as the board and not just at board meetings, but at your advisory board meetings and the liaison committees that you're a part of. Well, and definitely since you all, since I call, I since you boys took the, you know, cause again, we ran together and also I was like, no, the boys, but when you gentlemen took office, there definitely seems to be a feet on the ground and there's more than photo ops coming from county commission. So I do appreciate that. Now, one other thing I did like about your state of the county, You included people in the community like Mike Waters out there in the east over. I was like Grace Creek, Grace Creek area and chief Johnson over there on Stony Point. So you included the people that are really in our community and they are, they're pushing for change. mean, they're very vocal. Yeah. And I think one of the points that I was really trying to drive home is it's, it's about the people in this community. And if we're going to make the change, takes. Everybody doing it. It's not just seven people sitting on the county commissioners or others in elected office It's it's the community it's folks that are just like y'all are you end up fighting every day fighting for the community and in doing your part and y'all do your part just like Mike Waters did is and and you know, ⁓ Emma Did hers and when she was, you know helping raise money for homeless. Yeah. Yeah, I well and that's definitely a part of What makes us great here because we do have a lot of people that aren't And they come here, they land here, they live here, and they jump right into our community. So let's talk about mission forward. It sounds good. So there's investment, there's growth, stronger communities. But before we get too specific, I it felt like I was watching an Oprah show. Like, you get this and you get that. And I was going to look under my chair to see if I want anything, but I was at home. So I couldn't do that. But are we talking about existing revenue, new revenue? Or are we talking about debt? in the form of bonds that we might have to take. Where does this overall look like? Well, first of all, our community deserves these things, Okay. I mean, quite frankly, we do. We deserve a good education system that hasn't been funded in years. And so we showed last year that We can find our education system by the tune of over almost a half a billion dollars and still lower your tax rate. get it. We can argue about did people's tax rate lower, but we know. ⁓ my point is, is we can invest in the things with general fund dollars if you prioritize. So you invest, you know, quarter of a billion dollars in water infrastructure, which is woefully needed in this community that we haven't done, which is why we are suffering in so many ways and we can't come out of tier one because we can't grow our industry, can't grow our house tops. So you can do all those things so I think it's a community we deserved it wasn't it wasn't like a why giveaway, but it's so because We're involved and I'm involved and I'm around I'm on the one board for the county ⁓ you know it comes down to dollars and cents and I just from my experience. I know what an aquatic Center could cost I know what the the what we're behind on infrastructure can cost I know we need it I just don't know how to get there. I still, the aquatic center is lost on me. Everybody is talking about it in the quarks. How many people does this aquatic center really service? We have an aquatic center just over the county line. How many people from Cumberland County go over there and use it? Is it really cost effective to have an aquatic center? We have indoor pools and things like that. As a homeowner in Cumberland County, that's going, is there going to be a bond to pay for that? And if I'm paying for for a hundred people to use, yeah, probably not. I'm not interested in an aquatic center. Great questions, but it's not an aquatic center that's across the line in the county. When you look at our high school swim teams that have nowhere to swim, they have nowhere to train. They're in line and then sometimes only get two minutes in the pool to practice. So it's for our high school sporting teams is for. collegiate events, high school events, is for community recreation. When you look at each side of river, there are no aquatic, there is no pools on the other side of the river. When you look at how we fund it, that's why we're doing a feasibility study, because part of that feasibility study is to look at the programming. So you look at the tourism driver in it, you look at the economic driver of it, you look at how we partner with the military in Cape Verde Valley to maybe do some human performance type training that we see with our athletes or military members. uh... and that feasibility says can tell us what programs we need the best way to find it and find it doesn't always mean is on the taxpayers dying to be uh... a blend of funds there's a lot of different ways that we should and we need to do a better job in this community of how we fund things uh... what that actually means is that is it a private they have public-private kind of partnership and there's lots of opportunities and then more importantly where's it going to go and how we're going to do that but that's part of doing your homework and feasibility that doesn't mean we can't talk about it 10 years ago, 15 years ago, before the city council of Fayetteville ever did a parks bond, because I was part of that $35 million. There was a survey and it's been multiple that says, you know, the community is outcry for this type of swim competitions and aquatic center that gives this type of recreation. So I think the foundation is there. This is how you advance the ball instead of talking about things like we seem to do in this community. This is actually putting action to words and again, to use the framing of. the state of the county is forward. we're going to move forward. going to advance. So when they get through the feasibility study, may come back and say, you don't need it. So does that mean we're going to pay some outside firm to come inside here and tell us exactly what to do? we specialize in that. We've already budgeted that. I can't help who bids on the process. mean, if there's a consultant in this community that wants to bid on a county contract, by all means. They just have to submit, they have to submit the proposal like everybody else. We have a procurement process that we must follow. It's the law. You just can't hand out consulting contracts to whoever you want. I would love to see a priority of local. We have that. Okay. You have that across the union, but the question is we have got to get local vendors to also submit. that have the qualifications to do. Right. Well, and we do, and there's, you know, there's people that do that, but I think Yes, we budget that last year. That's part of again taking the step being responsible and putting actions to words and not just words. So, okay, just to be clear. ⁓ We are possibly looking at new revenue or cutting you said more efficient use of our resource, which is our property taxes we pay in. So are we just looking at just a combination of we're going to try to we need to raise new revenue, whether it's a bond or just more efficient cost cutting of a budget. mean, where's most of this stuff going to come from? Well, with what we do, we have a debt model. And so the way the county is structured, we move money into two kinds of funds. Think about it in two types of reserve funds. So you've got your reserve that you always hear about, you've got to have by law a certain percentage. But then we also have a capital fund that we move money to to help service our debt or to do pay as you go projects. unique structure that's in place. put some additional structure to it last year during our budget process on how that money's moved, percentages that we move. You know, we want to be mindful of the spending and the tax rate, of course. And so in this year's budget workshop, we looked at, know, we want to make sure that there's a percentage of our growth and we're not going to spend above what our growth is and be responsible when it comes to that. But we can service that. that your board unique that you took that step? I don't I don't know if it makes this unique. think it's how we operate. Okay. it how you always operate? for last 14 months since I've been in the chair. Okay. I will speak for myself. Okay. you got, and also to say fair to the looking back this, some of that funding formula for that, how we service our debt and how we do the page pay go projects, page of go projects. Some of that was put in place years ago. Now, there really wasn't a structure to it. They had a number that they came up with and that's what got moved. I will argue that as we looked at last year, making the investments and actually using the dollars the way we need to in the right debt model that is prioritized to the things that we need, like schools. Infrastructure and all these things there hadn't been dollars invested in those things in many years and the board did that last year So when you say you're prioritizing what what okay? What got put to the wayside? I don't know if anything got put to the wayside. It's just a matter of prioritizing and actually allocating the dollars and looking at it, but when you've got You know when you've got? renovations to courthouse for new general service, general administration buildings and things like that. We just reprioritize and reorganize the debt model to make sure that the first thing that we're funding is the things that matter most in this community and that affect your everyday life, that affect everybody's everyday life in this community, such as public schools. As you look right now at our school boards going through and they're trying to repurpose these schools and they've got $800 plus million of deferred maintenance. How do you think that deferred means out there? Cause we weren't making any. brings me to what I wanted to ask you. So overall, want to quantify for anybody that's going to watch or listen about how much is our budget in Cumberland County overalls about a half a billion, 400 million, four or 500 million. Okay. that goes up and down depending on different grants and things like that. could be five to 600 million. So if you, so I just want to think about, okay, we bring in about four to 500 million a year for property tax revenue. Well as a multitude of things different things, but mainly it's I would say majority of it is property taxes But what I'm trying to quantify and make it reasonable for anybody watching is if you say two hundred million dollars or a hundred million dollars for a certain project how much of our budget that is you know so it's a hundred million dollar project it's but I think it's hard to look it's not like just that one year you know in business I mean you don't go out and and pay cash or showing we we we leverage bonds and there's a lot of different types of bonds that you can leverage depending on what we do. You've got to have your capital improvement programs where you're doing the maintenance on the existing things that you have. So there's a lot of different ways that you structure those dollars. It's not really a one for one. And every year we go through a budgeting process. lot of people don't realize how large our county is. So that's kind why I wanted to also bring that up is, know, we're dealing with real money here. It's half of the amount that's running through here. But when you look at it, know, 40 % of that is, you know, is spent on health and human services. Right. You know, and then, you know, another large chunk is should be spent in education. And education not only includes, because remember, a county commission's responsibility is not only for K through 12, but it's also for our community colleges here as well. and quite frankly underfunded that for years last year was the first year we fully funded their operational as well as gave them some additional capital so and we talk about operational that is real dollars that's a hundred million dollar hundred ten million dollars to the public uh... uh... public school system i think we give you a little bit of cover here so the county funds the capital expenditures for the school and operational stop but not the teacher salaries now we find part of the teachers are as well but i thought so how do we quantified look because It's great to have goals. It's great to have vision. How do we quantify and what are the measurables so that we know that the dollars are being well spent? Where does the success come in? Because we are, you know, not very successful in our testings and things like that here in Cumberland County. So where is the measurable and how are the parents getting bang for their buck when it comes to their children? I think that's a twofold question. One, you know, we're investing in the public school system, into their strategic plan, into what we believe that how they're going to move the needle. said, so I think you can measure it against the things that we see in the school system. ⁓ For the other investments that we make, our strategic plan outlines some metrics and core things. We want to move the community on a very macro level. ⁓ mean, you can really look at, if you want to look and say, tier one indicators, did we grow our ⁓ average salaries in our community. grow our population? Did we grow home ownership? Did we lower poverty? mean, there's some really big picture kind of metrics, but if you're moving those metrics, then the community is probably moving in the right direction. What I would like to know is, do our students know how to read? would be a great question to... We need the school board people in here, for sure. I think that's a great question. I've got a child in fourth grade right now and I get it. mean, third grade reading is huge and I'll go back to when I served in the state Senate and COVID and what happened during COVID and our schools being closed and the impact that we are now, the ripple effect that we're seeing on that third and well, not third, Ben, but seventh grade level math or seventh grade level reading and math that we're seeing now. There is a lot of work, but there were dollars that were appropriated for that back in the day. Were those dollars used correctly? But to be clear, your job as a County Commission is to provide the funding to the school board to then for them to efficiently spend it. That's right. And understand we can't dictate those dollars. So I can't line item veto. We can't line item veto anything or. I think there should be some oversight. And that's where this question is going to come from. you know, yes, we fully funded the schools and that sounds great. The problem is we've lost how many students? We've lost to my knowledge the equivalent of about a Terry Sanford High School enrollment, twelve or thirteen hundred kids in our community. Why fully fund the schools if they have fewer kids? also I we were going to close some schools but now they've been kind of pushing back so why give them all the money for what they're maybe going to close? Is there an easy way to answer that? Well, I don't, you know, I think you're looking at it a very binary kind of level, you know, and I will, I will, and I have pushed back on the school system, you know, why are we losing students? But you could argue in your own business and your own business, if you don't have a good product, you can't, you can't sell it. are afraid to tell the schools that. But I mean, I I think they know, and that's part of the reason why they're trying to go back and repurpose and actually invest in some of these schools. When you've got an aging school and you got a school that's got an AC unit hanging outside the window and the children can't learn because they're not in the type of environment they need to be in, as a parent, aren't you going to take them? So aren't you going to make sure your child has the best opportunities to succeed, whether that's home school, whether that's private, whether that's charter, whether that's whatever it may be. We've got to do a better job of investing in the product. And that product is quite frankly, our children. but the school system is the vehicle for that. And we have not done that. So we can argue why kids are leaving. You could also look at the population growth and our declining population in the county as well. I'm just worried that there is no oversight because it is as having the school system be administrative heavy is not a good thing. And it's my, don't know if it's true or not, but I was told a while back that our school system is administrative heavy and administrators don't do a whole lot for the actual students. And that's a problem. That's a great conversation for your school board. I'll tell you one thing that we did do ⁓ is you know. That's why I there should be oversight. One of the things in the operational budget that they asked for was teacher supplements and being able to match so that we were the lead in the region. Because what was happening is we were losing people across the line in the Harnett County. got great teachers that were leaving because they could drive right across the line and make. several more thousand dollars a year. that how much the supplements are that we're providing? Is it that large of a? Yeah, so we went from being in the bottom in our region to being in the top. And there's a, you know, there's a ⁓ disproportional formula that's happened at the state level. And, you know, we'll argue that and but you can only control what you can control. And so, you know, we looked at it last time and said, ask us for it. If we can fund it, we're going to fund it because we know teachers are important. They add to that product of the school that we have that teaches our children. So that was part of it. And I think the accountability is for us is you need to do what you said you're going to do, or we're going to have a harder discussion when you come back in the next year, which is this year to have a conversation around what your ask is this year. And that was my biggest concern with, you know, fully funding the schools. Like, well, I think they're right in the middle of a transition of, I think they have bowed to some public pressure at the school board. And that's, I do want to have them on it. We do need to have some of those guys on, but, ⁓ you know, I this is a situation and you don't have to comment on this, but it's a situation where I think we, the public need to, I guess, defer to the people we elected to make these decisions because they're not easy. And there's a lot of passion around closing any of these schools, you know, it's. just. Political decisions and elected decisions are never easy. I don't see how they are, but you know, when I hear that, they're going to close school, A, B or C, because well, that school is ⁓ a classical school or whatever else. Does that mean. We can't close the building and move the same teachers and faculty to create that energy in another. And that's part of what you're doing. I think what you've seen the school board do so far is they really haven't changed the closures. They've moved around some of the programs or adjusted year-round schools or things like that. So there hasn't been an adjustment to the closures. And remember, what they proposed, and it's not final yet. They still have to finalize until they bring us a budget that's not final. But there is a $5 million a year of operational savings. I mean, that's a penny and half on the tax dollar. I mean, that's substantial. mean, especially when you're coming back with a $6 million increase this year. That's substantial. that $800 million was floating around quite a bit. then I did or did I not see that if they close some of these schools, they can get that bill down to the 400s? something like that. Yeah. mean, but then you got to factor in, know, there's also the new school construction as well. So, I mean, which we anticipate them coming back and asking for additional based on the, you know, what they've laid out. There's an additional ask of a new school construction. That's part of what we're The new school costs that's number like $30 million for new school. How much is what building costs? mean, I think you've got planning dollars. So I think when you look at it on elementary school versus a middle school versus a high school, there's kind of some planning dollars that they. that they put in and then as you go through the process, they'll define what the actual costs are. But you've got to have a planning dollar so that we can factor something into a debt model because we're going to have to make some decisions on when the renovations happen as well as the new school's construction begins, ⁓ when that debt needs to hit. Do we need to do it in general obligation bonds, which will take voters, which takes a process, or are we doing it through limited obligation bonds or something you hear called lobs that we can just do and we can issue difference in cost. But depending on the amount that we're going to, those are some of the things that we have to work through. And as we get those final decisions from the school board or their request, then as a board, we'll begin to re budget duty, you guys. They'll probably give it to us in May. Okay. Because you guys have a budget due in June, So you really don't have much. Well, we can put some, I mean, you can put some placeholders in from a planning standpoint and our staffs work very well together. You know, our CFO, our financial officer and our budget ⁓ officer, as well as the school boards do a great job of working together and communicating, you know, very routinely. So everything. So. again everything we're saying on facebook and all the floating in the in the space out here nothing's really final yet with the closures or with nothing is final now they've taken a vote which that vote is binding but until they move that budget forward I mean that's going to be the budget to be the one thing when they move a resolution to us because boards remember boards speak in resolutions and so when they move that resolution to us for an ask That's, know, there'd be a final vote and, know, given, you know, we have an opportunity to fund it or not fund it. Right. And, you know, I think you'll see a board that is going to be supportive of our education system as we have, because we're behind, quite frankly, and we have that. But there's collaboration, I'm sure, between your board and school board. mean, you guys are not letting them just bring a wish list and you're just saying, OK, I mean, there's a lot of work. Yeah. I mean, we will do a joint meeting to kind of go through the things I routinely talk to the chairwoman. of the board, ⁓ Chairman Musgrave, Judy Musgrave, and talk with a vice chair as well, and just make sure that there's an open line of communication as they're moving through this. Because it's important at the board level as well as at the staff level. Well, I think I feel little better about the schools, but I do want to see them make hard choices, because I know we need it. We need to give that 21st century education to these kids. They deserve it. mean, they have schools that are Falling down around them and they're still worried about some My granddaddy went there or something, you know some legacy things like look your granddad would be happy if you were in a new school Yeah, I mean I it's hard the decisions they have to make and you know I said that to them last year that there's nothing ever easy when you start talking about Redistricting or closing schools or anything? But these are hard decisions that you're not making for the now you're making it for the five and ten and twenty years down the road And you got to think about what this community has not had, know, in the investments that haven't been there. And so you're playing catch up. So it's a harder vote. It's a harder decision. ⁓ but quite frankly, that's what we're elected to do. We're elected to gather the information, gather the facts, listen to our community and make the decision that's in the best interest. And there's, I've made taken some votes over the years. I've been in office that. You know, you're always going to upset somebody. You're always going to make somebody happy, but you've got to do what's in the best interest. You're going to stick down the main line. Keep going. Okay. So, um, let's talk about water and sewer because that's been, I mean, that is a huge deal with PFAS contamination. And then of course, Fuqua Verena trying to steal 6 million gallons from us. Uh, yeah. And I, my favorite, I tried to tell somebody, was like, look, if that were to happen, as soon as PWC flipped the switch on giving them our water or them taking our water, We're automatically in a drought condition. Like without even having a hot day, like we're automatically on water conservation. So this is bad. Where are we in that process? Have we heard anything from department of environmental quality? So, uh, April is a month that the, um, environmental management commission, cause remember it goes to a commission first for the vote. That's who we testified in front of, if you spoke at one of the public forums. uh... indy q will be involved in it but it ultimately goes to that commission to to take a vote on it it's gonna happen in april so if you haven't given public comment you still have an opportunity to to the DEQ department of equality website uh... for north carolina and you can submit your you can submit your comments on why they shouldn't do it okay uh... so but we won't hear anything until april we've had a you know pwc's done a great job of really uh... organizing uh... the you know, the response to this at a county commission level, you know, I know I personally talk to people up and down the Cape Fear River, both on the commission side and also some my former colleagues on the state level to ensure they understand the impact because there's some. People are in ⁓ very powerful positions that will impact their community and I wanted to make sure they understood the impact that it was going to have and so we're continuing to work that advocacy at all levels. And you know me, I'm going to just come to a straight, what I feel like the easy pragmatic answer, but could this be avoided if you quite just built a pipe to the news? I mean, is that really is that what it is could solve their problem? I mean, is it just a lack of their infrastructure that's causing them to want our stuff? I mean, I think it's, know, Patent lease resistance and if you're you know, it doesn't impact them, you know, they they're a growing community They see an opportunity that will cost him less dollars. And so why not do it? I got you Just to fight it is a constant funders just like, know, just like anything else. I mean you've got to Again, I just wish it was that simple he could talk to people in the Senate and the house and you know get the money to build a pipe and But they've known about this for years. I think you're gonna take state dollars. You're paying for part of that Well, even was Billy Richardson spoke that night at fable tech and he was like hey they knew about this when I was in the house and he was in the house and what the First ones that set up the one of the initial laws around Interbasement right right technically this is their failure to plan 20 years in advance just like the fairs we have to plan around infrastructure in this community I mean we can't blame anybody else if we don't have capacity that's know that's ultimately our elected leaders I say not as I do Well, let's take a moment Laura. I'm gonna you haven't said anything about your comments coming in you got you got a few comments I do depends on if I like them or not. ⁓ my goodness. Well let's say hello to Jessica for she says she's still breathing, she's still alive. It's good to see you Jessica. Jessica. Welcome back. So Gary, let's talk about your 20 million dollars of taxes going to the landfill budget. I know. don't like to speak on something I don't have the facts on, but Gary, I've seen your comments and I think you know how to get a hold of me. I'm glad to get you that information as we look at ⁓ our landfill costs. We've got a lot of work to do. Again, an underfunded ⁓ enterprise funds. So this is a different fund. It's an enterprise fund. ⁓ It's fee based, but we also, you know, it has to balance out as you know, an enterprise fund. But we've got some work to do there. And that's one of the things that we looked at last budget season. And I think we're going to continue to look at it this season. You know, there's some opportunities in the landfill with some things that we can do to offset some of the costs. And I think we'll see some conversations around that. But Gator, that's a great question. I understand. I fully believe that, you know, a fee is just a tax in any other terms. Well, I think a lot of people think the landfill is just a big hole we keep putting stuff in that they don't realize how much maintenance and all goes into operating that big landfill. Yeah. I'm just, know, there's a lot of pieces that go into it. And again, you have to make the investments along the way. And if you don't, then you end up, you know, having to, to Like we're this kid. I know that's right. Pay the piper. You're exactly right I like this comment about Falcon cuz I was actually just gonna go out last Thursday They had their Falcon town meeting and I'm gonna start heading out to all the outer bands to join me. I'm out there all the time. Yeah ⁓ yeah, I'm gonna bear turp and it is wonderful. You couple I just didn't feel like I was sick over the last couple weeks a Thursday night I was like, I just I want to go home and go to bed, but I love this question from our Falcon person. Okay, so Living in Falcon and paying over $4,500 a year in taxes. What do we so-called- You are a citizen, aren't I was going to say, you are a citizen. do we actually get for the money? No police, no EMF, no roadside crash. Inside Falcon, so you have Falcon city town taxes and you have counties. So remember, if you live inside a town or municipality or city, there is a tax rate that they pay as well. So encourage you to look at those. We did lower our tax rate. You know, again, that didn't impact everyone, but we dropped it. pretty substantially 30 cents, six cents below revenue neutral, as low as we could get it and not have to cut services. But when you look at roads, I get it. I'm dealing in some of the unincorporated areas now out towards between Hope Mills and Fayetteville, there's a lot of unincorporated areas. I've spent a lot of time out there along with some other commissioners identifying some of the issues along the roadways. And unfortunately, those are DOT. It's not a permitting, it's not an inspection. It's not you passing the buck. It's not it's it's you know, that's who's funded to clean it up and we've got to hold them accountable But to it kind of combines with the other If we don't have easy places that are not overly expensive to take your trash Then we probably won't see some of that on the roadside and that's part of his comment was, you know, it's dumps have sporadic hours, but it's a town of Falcon Is it or is not so that you know? You have in some of the unincorporated areas, of course, there's not trash service, so you have contract for your own trash service, but you do have access to the dumps. So that is one thing that we've heard over the last years. What are the hours? You know, again, there's a cost to the hours that are there. are the outlying areas? Do we position more remote spots and we're transitioning one out into some of the unincorporated areas in the areas I was just talking about. But are there other? more convenient areas where people just are going to take it and throw their recliner that they don't want anymore on the side of the road. And that's so it's twofold. It's not just a DOT issue to clean up, but it's also to make sure that we have access to convenient locations that are also affordable in, you know, because you do pay taxes and so you should be able to have the basis of services and is that one of the basis of services? Well, and RK, if you want to put it in the chat here, what are the hours that you're seeing? I'd like to talk about that. But Kirk, I want to ask you this, the rest of his statement, honest questions and perspective, any steps to at least return a larger percentage of that money back to my municipality where I can actually see the money work for the community. So does that feed into maybe your conversation of using the money more appropriately and more efficiently? Is that going to help maybe in this situation? Yeah, I think so. And I think one of things that and since i've been a chairman things have been very deliberate about i meet with the municipal mayors every month rebuilt it and i knew a lot of before i came into this role just based on my previous positions uh... but it's about relationships and one of the things i talk to them about is how can we do things that the county should be doing that we can lessen the burden on your general fund so you can return that either in the form of lower tax rates or additional services for growth that you need Okay. So we're, you know, we're doing things like standardizing some of the planning and inspections where some of these smaller municipalities are outsourcing this and paying others to do it when there should be a baseline level of service that we're either doing or we're doing it for a nominal fee if there is a cost associated with it. ⁓ so it's things like that. It's how we change the last year. You're out handling things. It sounds like. Trying to, but it's, it's a very convoluted process with a lot of. unique in local agreements that some people can't find. It's like having that container of wires that you just throw everything in. You pick one and it leads to like 45 hours. Yeah, but when I put them in, they were organized. I don't know about that. But yeah, I feel like every time you kick a rock, you're fighting something else. it comes from actually what I talked about earlier. It comes from getting out in these communities and listening to people and talking to these mayors on frustrations. Burnett, screaming for help with his water situation so he can actually grow his community put more house tops there bringing more tax revenue to fund his town. Didn't get any help. We're putting that help in place now and this regional approach that we're you know tackling with water and sewer is helping him put that infrastructure in so now that he'll be able to have the water infrastructure. So how long until RK sees some measurable improvements? You know, ⁓ nothing's ever fast. I guess it depends on what he's defining. Making investments in school, making investments in water infrastructure, making investments in how towns ⁓ can do inspections, how they can have more tax dollars to do the quality of life things that they need to, or lower their tax rate. I think some of that's up to some of the communities. I think the county is trying to be and is being a better partner. to our municipalities, because we're stronger when we all move in the same direction and not operate out in our silos. But our focus is how can we help these communities grow at the rates that they want to grow. But more importantly, and you'll hear me say it every time I can, how do we keep more money in people's pockets? Because people know how to spend their money best. And he does recognize that he sees Kirk at meetings. So ⁓ that's something that I've commented on several times. for the first time and i always have when i was everywhere but i don't know if they're going do it is everywhere all right but i think that for the first time i'm seeing more than just one i'm seeing you at all kinds of events i'm seeing uh... pavan and henry at all kinds of events and in the point is uh... it's also things happening in the morning right versus just appearing and things happen that's the difference is i see it's not a photo op It's listening and taking things back and that's the difference that I've seen in this board over perhaps the way things have been running in the past. And I do see also recognition that the city and the county are now working together at a better, more visible, would say. And you say the city of Fayetteville. So I'll also caveat that with Hope Mills. And, you know, I meet with Mayor Bellflowers routinely and we're working through things out there on how we can help them. know, Springlaking and Mayor Anthony, I meet with her once a month and we're, know, slowly knocking down the Manchester Fire District. You know, what we can do with their infrastructure. They've got $75 million. they still have the two fire stations out there, but one servicing and not getting paid from or something? No, no. So that's all been cleared up. So a different volunteer fire department was covering that Manchester. We just reworked that. waiting for them to come back and approve the coverage. Because the Manchester Fire District is a county fire district, so we're asking municipality to cover that district. And we would pay them for those services. But I think that's the other thing to, know, what you see in these municipalities. Hopefully as we do this, and again, you can't change things overnight. It's been 14 months. It's 15 months. But I think what you're going to see is you're going to see better recreational services. You're going to see better, you know, public safety services, know, more sheriffs out in those areas, more stronger volunteer fire departments out in those areas based on the things that we're doing. You know, it takes, it takes a little while to turn that ship. bring up the volunteer fire station because that was an issue before the election. Yeah. So wheels turn slow, but they're turning. Right. And I think that's, that's at least progress. Thank God. Well, what you have to do is you just, you've got to stay focused on the things that matter. You can, and as an elected official, you can move to the noise. Or you can stay focused on the things that matter because you don't want to wake up in two years from now You're looking at the same list that you looked at You know previously and said ⁓ my god, but if I got done and it's funny because I just had a conversation this morning about ⁓ We're so focused on all this wrong. We forget to look at what has changed and what has been fixed like my example was like in australia which has nothing to do with county but we were talking about the reef the great barrier reef was dying and everybody had to get onto it well it's like ninety percent eighty five ninety percent back regrown but you don't hear about it anymore so here in cumberland county And I use that as a big thing for people to visualize in Cumberland County while you have issues as things get resolved. We need to be reporting on that too, not just all the problems so that people can see that we are turning that. It's kind of like we don't always want the negative, we want both things. You listen to my state of the community because that's what I talked about. I talked about the people define us by our challenges versus our character, by what we lack, which is what you just spoke about, versus what we build. And we've got to tell our own story. And you know, the story that we've got to tell is continuing around that we do invest, you know, our schools. these goals have to be measurable to say, hey, here's where I came in and here's what I've done and this is how it's changed or whatever. So they really need to be measurable so that we can show and we need to have a channel just on positive things that have happened around Covina County because I'm tired of seeing all the negative. But you know, there's nothing wrong with having those hard conversations. know, families have hard conversations, but They celebrate the win. That's right. That's exactly what I said. we don't do that. That's right. So we've got to do both. we've got, I mean, that's part of what I talked about in the state of the community. And while it may have looked like, you know, whatever you said me up there with hand gestures, the professional, it was about getting our community to rally forward and to tell our story because we are doing some things right. Do we have everything right? No, of course we don't. You know, would I love our tax rate to be lower? Would I love all these problems to be solved at the sample? I'm a finger no, we didn't get here in a year and we're not gonna get out of it in a year or two or four years. I mean, these are long-term things that we have to put in place to set the conditions for exactly what I talked about in the state of the county. that's, and I looked at my boy and said, we're making decisions for him and his, and the next generation after him. So what I'm hearing you say is that you're in this for the long haul. I'm in it to make the changes I can make as long as the citizens have me here. Okay. So. one more time with the water and sewer and I'll leave it alone. I love talking about it. So what is, so I know we missed an opportunity like 30, 40 years ago to have funding for it because they didn't, we didn't want it. And essentially now we, didn't know we had poison in our water back then either. ⁓ so how big is this project going to be? Are we looking at a half a billion billion dollar project to bring? sewer and water down to these areas? Yeah, so it's really a combination. So we're taking a very regional approach. So what you're seeing is we are breaking the county into districts, which we kind of already started. So you have what you probably heard the Norcrest, which is northern Cumberland County. But, you know, we're establishing the other districts. So when we regionalize this and then we look at, so take Norcrest, you know, long term, you want to have those municipal systems, which again this is another way that we help the falcons and the godwins in the way it municipal water and sewer systems who you can afford that's so how do we reach a lot of that how do we work together uh... to bring the resources into those individual districts so we can still go back to the u s t a who we've had conversations with we can go find grant dollars, can allocate pay as you go. So there's still money available to do it if we look at the district level. There is. And so what we want to do is focus at that district level and build those districts, you know, long term, but do it in a way that's one responsible, but also does it in a collective way that, you know, as you look at land use plans and you take those future land use plans and you lay them over the districts so that when we're building out sewer and water, we're building to if this is an urban area or industrial area, we're building to that standard. We're not building, we're not under building. But the piece of it is how do then all these districts work together, how these municipalities work together and how do we, you know, how do we bring more capacity into I mean, are we looking to create like Cumberland County water? like the run PWC. How does this look? So have, so PWC is going to be a partner in this Harnett County Water would be a partner in this. Dunn is going be a partner. It's ESD. those guys will kind of just grow their footprint and administer what you're going to put in? You got to think they're going to provide, help provide capacity into those districts and how that build out works may be a build out as funded from the districts, funded from one of our partners. There's a lot of different ways every district is going to look different. Depending on how we and what we're doing right now is we're working through district by district to create an action plan not a talking point an action plan on the deliverables that you're gonna see by quarter by year that need to happen in in these districts to advance this well that also allows you to prioritize much I need that's That's exactly what I'm But what is it not most need it's we need it. Yeah, I need it across all sections. Yeah, it's a basic infrastructure. So yeah We're having a conversation tomorrow on infrastructure summit. We're focused on economic corridors of 95. So really that industrial, right now, Robert, you know, we don't have anything along that 95 corridor that we can really promote to industry. And if you look at what's happening, you know, along that quarter, we've got huge opportunities to, you know, recruit industry, defense industries, and that's right. mean, multiple things. Maybe that could go on top of the aquatic center. There you go. Or the clock. Yeah, tie it all together. it for-profit business. But that corridor has got, we've got to invest in it. So we're spending time tomorrow, you know, talking to all the partners, talking to not just utility. You're talking about I-95, not Business 95. Correct. I-95 up through Falcon, Godwin, you know, all the way up to connecting into Harnett County, but all the way down to, you know, also looking at the smaller arteries like 87 and 24 and 401. I we have to invest infrastructure in that corridor or we don't have a product. I mean, just like we're talking about the school system earlier, why aren't people going here? Why aren't people living here? It's because we don't have the room for- We have the dirt, but we don't have the infrastructure. Yeah, we got the room for them. And I'm going to blame you for this. So you said the county can do all of this while still keeping money in taxpayers' pockets. So how is that going to work in practice? Again, I think you have to prioritize, and you have to look at what makes, you got to prioritize what's important. You know when you look at education and what we can do you got to prioritize that you got to prioritize the infrastructure You got to look at you know, and if you're doing those types of things you're growing your tax rate So if you're responsible with the growth and we do smart growth and we continue to see growth not only in our County you're gonna see you know incremental revenue growth. Look at how this state of North Carolina did it kept a low tax, right? but yet we're the strongest in the nation for business growth. You we have some of largest and you look around at some of corridors around us when you look at, you know, up in the Greensboro area and some of these other areas, strong growth that happened, look at right up the road in Clayton, or not Clayton, right at the road outside Smithfield with a Vulcan plant in that corridor. We have to do those same types of things so you can grow and keep your tax rate or low you just have to do it in a Responsible way and invest in the things that matter. you can do it as long as we don't remain static We have that continue pushing to attract the larger industry But you've got to have the infrastructure. You have to have the infrastructure it. You can't have you can't not have infrastructure in respect to grow you can't not have clean water and and in sewer so that you can build house stops because there's only so many locations you can really build Well, I think the taxpayers are willing to invest in their community. really believe that. that they what we don't like our surprises. So along the way, mean, you're one of most transparent people that we see, but you're committing to ⁓ transparency along the way so that nobody's caught off guard. I mean, transparency and everything that we're doing. And I know, you know, maybe a little, you know. Over the top, but I mean everything from streaming our meetings to go to our website now And there's dashboards that drill down into if you want to look at a specific project It'll tell you how much we're spending on it And we're trying to get that as real time as we can based on the data sources But we want to be if somebody wants to find the information, know, even from a public records request We've streamlined that service so people can get the information in timely manner in the way that they want it To me standing up in front of the press Once a month and taking questions just like I'm taking ⁓ You know not knowing what the script is. This isn't scripted and I think that's part of it. ⁓ didn't get your script? So we have a lot of good great plans Kirk and What is a risk maybe that hasn't been talked about as publicly as it should have been or is going to be? What is the largest risk to any of this growth and all I mean what? What could hold us back? Well, I mean just the ability. I mean, there's a lot of risk. I mean, when you look at what we're seeing, when I talked about health and human services, we got $28 million that are coming down between the federal and the state that are going to cost us around some of the programs. When we look at Medicaid, we look at SNAP, and we look at some programs that affect the most vulnerable in our community, there's $28 million worth of, I hate calling it We're going to have to fund for different programs and just shortfalls, et cetera. On top of ⁓ you know we're seeing sales taxes is not going at the rate that it previously has ⁓ you you run the risk of ⁓ you know anything at the state level or federal level changing based on the winds of government so a lot of times there's a lot of outside things are outside of your control that you can't factor you have to be able to defend against ⁓ i think that's why we have to be cautious when we look at things like food and beverage tax ⁓ when we look at Occupy tax and we look at these other things that are out there that fund when we look at grants when we look at you know uses of grant dollars and making sure those aren't integrated into recurring expenses right We've got to be smart about those things, but those are the risks, but those things that you can't control Somebody that at a federal or state level can snap their fingers and change that impacts you directly I think that's the casting what the risk is i think that's the best i think we're starting the local level you know look at the foundation and making sure that we're doing the right things foundationally from a budget standpoint from a services standpoint and a lot of work to do still but there's no rest is the unknown is not even the unknown because we know some of our coming ⁓ but it's people speak of the twenty eight million dollar shortfall i mean that really originated at the federal government level It did some of it. Well, it's ⁓ a sound to know some of ripples down to the state and you know, we haven't even had a conversation that in rightfully so that the the state put in a trigger for Medicaid expansion and if the funding level set fell below a certain rate That they would have the ability to you know to repeal it and move it back, know that happens That's another impact and it's not just an impact on our community It's an impact on our hospital because now those people are going to the emergency room. Well, I think people that Again this you know going from national to local politics. There's a huge difference, but ⁓ people don't realize you know the administration or Outside of our control affects our local pocketbooks even more than just for the federal taxes. I mean They're not going to fund Medicaid so now we have a hole for 28 million here. That's a big deal Well, it's not just Medicaid, but it's also snap and some other things and it's just you know I understand you know work requirements and some of the pieces of the equation they're putting in but we've got to be smart about how we implement it so let's just say at the state level you couldn't look to say we've got this great program called you know nc works and works with you know employers and everything else so why can we integrate that into nc works and now you're doing your verification inside nc works and that takes the pressure that's a statewide program managed by the state ⁓ you know that's another way to look at it that would lessen the burden on the counties But we see a lot more getting pushed down cost to the counties and municipalities, but also taking away our ability. So when you look at down zoning and some of these other laws that are coming through, I mean, and now at the state level, you're talking about doing stuff with our property, our property tax. I saw that. Yeah. There's a whole community about revising. So that's, that's potentially dangerous. When we look at that, we're, we're a county that's being responsible. Go look at. John Lott Foundation and see what they've said about Cumberland County this year. You know, we're, one of the ones that are being the most responsible now. Right. Well, I mean, I hope that continues. Yep. Um, I, every plan does have its risks, but what keeps you up at night that makes you sweat? That keeps me up at night. I think what keeps me up at night is, um, I talked a little bit about it just the unknown that's out there and not being able to Impact against the unknown, but I think what keeps me up at night is You know what I talked about in the state of county is not being able to create that community that People want to grow in and we end up moving backwards versus forward. I think that's what probably keeps me up at night on top of knowing that we have a lot to do in a short window to make sure that we keep pace but stay ahead of pace in an ever-changing environment that we're in in this state. to add to a positive tell me what the favorite part of your job as a County Commissioner, the chair of the County Commission, what's the best part of what you do? What do you wake up and be like, yes I get to do this today? Anytime I get to go out. I mean, like we just talked about out in Falcon and talking to people that, you know, let you help make an impact for here. Mayor Burnett say thank you. Or when I was, you know, at the Liberty basketball game this weekend and the lady came up to me and said, she don't know me at all, but just thank you for what you're doing. And we feel the impact. actually feel like we're going in the right direction now or helping somebody that has had an issue at DSS. hasn't been able to break through a barrier or a wall. I think the impact. that you can have on people. It's why I continue to do this as much as I get punched in the face and stabbed in the back over and over repeatedly. It's what drives me is what's in my DNA. It's why I enjoy serving is to help people and try to make their lives a little bit better than it is today. And I think that's when you see those sparks. I used to always kid Mayor Schiavone when he was the mayor of Fayetteville. I'd send him a note and say, and something like that would happen that personal kind of experience it's a man say it's a good day to be the mayor and that you have those good days ⁓ especially when you you feel somebody that you helped ⁓ that's just so it keeps you going i like in the last night i really do like that well chairman debbie or thank you for being here today and ⁓ suffering to our questions and ⁓ I appreciate the opportunity. Sorry you didn't get your script. No, okay. Well, thank you to Mrs. Laura Mustard for being here. Thank you. Thank you to everybody that's watching and I hope you continue to support the show. are a voice. Thank you, Peter Pappas for joining us. I'm doing the best I can today. Okay. So we are a voice for the conservatives and still the Smarter Style of Radio, whether you hear us on a speaker, a phone or a screen, follow us, share us and stay with us at TheCarolinaCabinet.com. So until next time, we're the Carolina Cabinet.